A message from Harriet Harman - Minister for Women and Equality - how is the credit crunch/recession is affecting you and how do you think Government can help?

[JustineMumsnet]

Harriet Harman writes:
We want to protect families from the credit crunch with real help. And we want to hear what Mumsnet are concerned about during this recession; what you want us to be doing about it; and what you want to see changed for the future. Prime Minister Gordon Brown is hosting an international Economic Summit in London (which President Obama will be coming to) in April to agree with other countries how we work together to get the global economy back on its feet and growing again. I want to hear from you and feed your views in to this summit.

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
What do you think about bonuses?
How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

EB00 agree with safer cycling. About to embark on a cycle. I am going for training but I already know its not safe even for very good cyclist.

SenoraPotostrophe - studies show that the UK and Ireland have some of the lowest rates of statutory maternity pay in Western Europe. In Sweden, which has some of the best, women receive maternity pay for 96 weeks.

I'm not sure what maternity/paternity pay/rights has to do with the recession rather than just personal finance. But since we have meandered over to the topic, I firmly believe the best thing we could do for the advancement of women in the work place is to increase paternity pay/leave up to exactly what women get. Only then, will men start taking it. And only when start leaving the workplace for just as long as their wives/partners do will we start to be seen as equal players.

I think 6 weeks at 90% is long enough. Now, give it to men as well.

Oh, and coparing our statistic to those in Western Europe is surely a tad short sighted. If you look worldwide, we have a pretty good deal.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
Not directly at the moment, just general worry about the economy. If things stay them same I guess the state of the housing market would be problematic for us when we want to move.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
Haven't asked for it. I think there's a lot of non-governmental help and info (that bloke with the website who's always on the tv/radio for example) which is helpful.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
Advice about help available needs to be clear. My only child is 7 months old and trying to figure out WFTC/CTC from websites was quite challenging (although when I phoned the helpline they were quite good.

What do you think about bonuses?
I dont think any of the top bankers should be getting bonuses. It's tricky when you go further down the chain. Yes, people in certain banks wouldn't have a job if the government hadn't bailed them out, but individual ordinary workers may have already met bonus-related performance criteria or there may be contractual obligations about bonuses in place. The Government needs to look at long-term pay and conditions for these employees - they've always been in the private sector and this is massively different from terms and conditions of traditional 'government' employees.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?
Why differentiate between women and men?

As many have said before, there are real opportunities to help working families with childcare.

• increase the amount of childcare that can be 'salary sacrificed'
• introduce the element of free childcare at an earlier age so those that want to/have to go back to work earlier can afford to.

One more thing on interest rates - I get emails from my bank telling me that interest rates on my savings/current accounts etc are reducing but I never seem to hear about any reductions on my credit card/loans. The banks should be passing on the interest rates cuts to those in debt to help them get themselves sorted out - people wont start boosting the economy by spending if they're saddled with debts they cant afford.

That's my tuppence worth.

. What is happeining in the Swedish economy today though FFF? The German economy was already in trouble before the recession. It's not possible to just magic money out of a hat.

But the childcare issue is probably the main conundrum in a fair society. Women have been exploited since the dawn of our species because they will do the childcare whether they are helped to do it or not. But it's not that they are doing something they don't want to do - it's that the work they do is undervalued to the point where it actually has no official worth even though good parenting saves society a lot of money in the long run. You get it on here when people with no kids ask why they should subsidise women wanting to stay at home ? completely missing the point that kids are the future and if we don?t invest in them, parents and care givers, we neglect our future. The population is so large and so many people are choosing not to have children that the link between sex and reproduction is all bit lost for many ? and hence they just don?t get it.

Understanding psychosexual difference is paramount in analysing the nuance of this argument. If women are being pushed into male roles, parenting will suffer. But neither do women want to be pushed into docile domestic roles as they were. Science is just beginning to understand female sexuality and psychology, and it is nothing like how men imagined even just 50 years ago.

Women need a coherent voice, but unfortunately modern feminism has totally failed in this area, so women have no advocate ? just when it is most needed. Gender feminism has been the death of feminism to all intents and purposes. But this is my area of academic interest ? which is women and social policy - so hopefully I and other feminist evolutionists will be discussing things with some government bodies in years to come.

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?
In our house, we're both pretty well aware of the recession. Me because I have lost my job and my husband because he's had to make people redundant. Both of us because we have lost an income.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
The recession is certainly affecting our family life - we have lost an income and are receiving very, very little assistance. The result of this is a cut-back of spending, a very real fear that income will exceed expenditure and a steep reduction of normal family activity.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

It couldn't be worse. Every time I have asked for information or advice I have been told there is nothing appropriate/available for me.

My local job centre doesn't have time to allocate people 10 minutes every fortnight to talk about getting a job. It has been reduced to a 10 minutes signing once a month and a quick 'in and out' for the other fortnightly visit.

I have attended an interview in London and paid over £55 to get there from the depths of rural Somerset (train ticket booked in advance, travel pass in the city and parking at the railway station). The job centre paid £35 towards the costs. This has left me with £25 to fund the whole of the rest of my week. I can't afford to attend interviews on this basis.

When I asked for help with advice on retraining the job centre staff told me I was more qualified to look into it than they were and would be better off doing it myself. They added that there training was more suited to improving basic literacy and numeracy rather than anything that would be suitable for me.

I found it very hard to be interviewed in a large, open plan job centre with all my personal details, previous salary and so on being shared with everyone there. There was no privacy at all. I can't come to terms with overhearing the interview with the young lad next to me who had never worked and yet was entitled to more support than me. I have worked without exception for nearly 20 years. I am not even entitled to free prescriptions. It cannot be right. I have no other income and used up all my savings before I was forced to sign on.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?

Value those of us who have been working and supporting the welfare system by ensuring we are able to make good use of it when we need it.

Ensure the system is not weighted towards those who have never worked and are, terrifyingly, better off by not working.

Ensure those who earn a middling salary are more supported than they currently are. An average income household seriously struggles to pay a mortgage, childcare and normal living costs but fights to do so. Our independence is valuable BUT is very ill supported by the government.

What do you think about bonuses?
Bonuses are good in moderation, but need to be capped to ensure they remain moderate. In this way they will remain as an incentive but will not encourage reckless risk taking as the prize is not so obscene large

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?
Any assistance should not be limited to women.

what you want us to be doing about it;

Help for businesses - cutting VAT to 15% would make no difference to my decisions re: purchases, especially when so many goods now have huge discounts. Prop up businesses as you have banks.

and what you want to see changed for the future.

Capping the amount that banks/building societies can len in terms of multiples of salary. If they hadn't pushed it up to 5x joint salary then house prices could never have followed suit.
Bigger grants for local authoritied to avoid job losses.

Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?

Not particularly - men are less likely to express their true views.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?

At the moment we're laughing - we have a tracker rate mortgage so our monthly payments have dropped several hundred £. But that doesn't stop me worrying when I see shops closing and businesses going bust. I feel as though the axe is hanging over us. I don't feel like spending - I'd rather save the extra money that we now have each month in case our jobs are next to go.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?

N/A to us.

What do you think about bonuses?

No bonuses for bank staff helped by govt bail-out

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

Why only women? That sounds patronising.

Re bonuses - bank staff on 17k a year probably desperatly rely on an annual bonus so I would certainly not begrudge bonuses for them . It's the obscene bonus culture that rattles people, natch

They should be paid a decent salary in the first place - it's like making waitresses rely on tips

The recession is affecting me as dh made redundant in Jnauary having been there just 7 months...therefore no payout other than half a months final wage. I work full time and pay out for childcare...how long do I keep paying the childcare for to keep the place? I cant do it on just my wage but if I give it up and then he finds a job we have lost a good childminder who dd knows very well. The mortgage is based on 2 incomes and we have no spare cash, in fact I can't do any food shopping right now and so are eating at family and neighbours.

Dear Harriet,

The recession is affecting my self employed husband's business and he has not got as much work to do so our income is lower.

I haven't been able to get a job since I had my son three years ago, since I moved house. I am an Occupational Therapist and am willing to work for the local council or NHS.

I applied for a job when I was pregnant, didn't get it, found out much later that post had been filled by someone who didn't even meet the essential criteria.

Then I applied for a job when my son was 17 months old but when I asked for part time work this was refused and I couldn't get childcare to do the full time hours as there were no nursery places available (I live in rural wales where getting childcare is a huge problem)

All other jobs I've seen are for NHS Band 5 full time positions. I know people band 6/7 who have gone off on maternity leave who have come back on part time hours (3 days per week) but the rest of their positions get transformed into Band 5 full time posts as employers don't want people for just two days per week.

So Harriet, since I have lost thousands of pounds in salary and pension contributions would like to be able to ask for and get flexible working without having to wait 26 weeks as a qualifying period. I would like the NHS and councils to have to advertise the other half of job shares. I would like the same rules to apply to me as to people who didn't have to move out of London when their husbands were made redundant. Cheers.

Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?
I work as a civil engineer within flood risk managment. My husband is a geologist. Our jobs I believe are currently secure. Although if the govt. reduces its spend on infrastructure or managing flood risk they would be in jeopody. However our pay rises have been extremely low to enable our company to keep overheads down and still bid competatively for work and there are redundancies within parts of our business. We are both working extra hard to ensure that we do a great job, so that if redundancies were to hit our parts of the business, we would be valued and not on the first cut. I am pregnant with our first baby, and I really want my husband to not work the hours we are currently doing when it arrives.

Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?
I've not needed any.

What do you want to see government doing to help with that?
Keep investing in infrastructure.

What do you think about bonuses?
Our bonuses are cut when our company makes less money than expected. It seems unfair that banks that have lost money, and yet can still pay bonuses, when it's not even their money.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?
I think that by starting your own business you are exposing yourself to higher risk (although also reward). Within this market, where established businesses are failing, through problems with cash flow due to reduced lending. I see no point in exposing myself to increased risk, especially as cash flow is most difficult to maintain during the initial few years. So the short answer would be improve market conditions.

I'm not sure if this is a consequence of the recession but DP just heard tonight that all his group of adults with learning difficulties are to be reassessed and those deemed functioning enough to get on a bus now and again will lose their direct payments - which will mean they lose their lifeline to the community, that their families will have to become full time carers, and that DP's business provoding pioneering stimulus for disabled adult people will simply fail within weeks if not months - and these people will disapear from society - already the most segregated of all. I don't know what to say. Why ask what can vbe done to start socially valuable business when government cut off sources form the other side by targeting the most vulnerable in our society. They won't kick up a fuss as much as the WI, I guess.

Remain convinced that increased subsidy of childcare would be the single biggest thing that would help get women back into work, make working more worthwhile financially and help during credit crunch when women who don't presently work are thinking about entering the jobs market. Need a more structured approach to childcare needs between ages of 0-14 as I understand that big gaps appear after primary school age.

wish that bonus culture could be halted but suspect that is unrealistic. Cannot believe that people who work in banking/financial sector have come to expect such significant bonuses as 'the norm'. As public sector employee, I have seen 'perks' negotiated in the past by unions in lieu of pay rises - for things like petrol used in course of job, professional association fees, daily parking costs - removed by employers after summary consultation.

What do you think about bonuses?

It's practically impossible for the Government to interfere in bonus-setting in 100% private companies - so nothing to be done there. However, if we're talking some of the recently part-nationalised banks and building societies, I'm happy to see an element of performance-related pay, yes, as I recognise people go into that line of work for financial reward and that's what motivates them. But millions ? no.

This is a terribly difficult area overall though - making money (either for your own business or for the British economy) means taking risks. But what risk is too enough/too much? It?s much easier to decide this for your own business than for someone else?s.

How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?

I don?t think I received any Government help at all when starting up (I'm a ltd-co-style contractor/consultant plus occasional subcontractors) trading successfully for 3-4 years ? bar finding the written resources on the Business Link website useful. In some respects that?s just as it should be ? if you can?t make it work on your own then some would say you?re not much of an entrepreneur in the first place. But people?s levels of ambition and their motivations are different ? and so are their levels of education and self-confidence.

Childcare costs are also an issue for women running businesses for two key reasons:

1. because when starting a business there?s a lag between outlay and getting paid, but you need to pay for childcare upfront. If your business is established you ought to have your cashflow organized ? but if you?re starting off you don?t have any cashflow, obviously. Could there be some targeted help for women/parents in this situation?
2. because the various tax and childcare credit schemes on offer are better suited to employees in larger firms than they are to those running small and micro-enterprises either as freelancers or ltd co-style contractors. This is doubtless because there are a lot more employees in the economy than workers of other types ? but you?re asking particularly about women starting businesses. For example, if you?re a ltd co-style contractor who is both company director and an employee in her own firm, who takes a small wage and the rest as dividends, the childcare tax credit help options targeted to small business don?t make any overall difference ? because you?d need to raise employee salary in order for them to kick in and there?d be more income tax and NI due on that. This is a complicated area ? as my accountant and I discovered when we sought advice from both HMRC and various other knowledgeable sources including the Daycare Trust. But it seems that the current position gives with one hand and takes away an equal amount with another (this observation will no doubt raise a smile from any HMRC officials reading this thread ? possibly this state of affairs was precisely their intention).

The Government can either go down the road of offering a tax advantage re women/parents running businesses with childcare costs or not ? but the current position as I describe it above seems to offer nothing.

IMO the bigger question for the Govt to consider is: if we gave women/parents with childcare costs who also run businesses more help with meeting those costs would this eventually:
*help create employment (as small businesses grow)
*help increase GNP/GDP/substitute another economic measure
*(and for Labour) contribute to creating a more just society in some quantifiable way (this broad category covers family life, work-life balance, ?happiness? etc)

Any economists on Mumsnet who know the answers to the above questions?? I?d be interested to hear them!

This book was recommended to me recently by someone I respect highly - I haven't read it yet as it's a bit pricey for me at the mo (that reminds me I must ring tax credit helpline)

who pays for the kids by Nancy Folbre

Yoiu can read it online here tho that is impossible to do with kids flying about.

It's Monkeytrousers btw

Has the recession affected us? Most certainly. The high cost of living and providing for a family is getting beyond the ridiculous.

My husband has a good career but because of extortionate childcare costs, I have given up work to stay at home with my three young children. As a well qualified and experienced teacher in middle management, I am still unable to earn enough to cover the costs of childcare provision, especially in London. So we are now having to manage to one salary. My husband's deputy has just been made redundant, leaving him to pick up the pieces with no salary increase to compensate.

This is all very worrying and disappointing for me as my professional skills lie dormant and I cannot earn money to help keep us afloat. Although it was my choice to have a larger family and we are independent of any state help ( except child benefit), it is extremely tough for us as the moment. Just the basics- food, transport and energy bills take ALL our available income,leaving us with nothing for holidays or extras.

It is not just childcare costs that are my concern. It is the overall poor quality of provision available which terrified me when I became a mother. Under qualified, poorly paid staff, many of whom are very young and inexperienced in charge of the most vulnerable is not acceptable in my opinion.
Far more professionalism in this industry is needed with more support for women like myself who want to return to work. My daughter's primary school has no before or after school clubs to enable me to consider full- time work. So even when all my children are of school age, I'll be trapped in part-time employment as we cannot afford childminders between the hours of 8-9am, and 4-6pm for 3. This will therefore always impact on my ability to contribute to the workforce and your government has lost an experienced, committed secondary school Head of Department.

I see from recent news reports that thousands of women are still being forced to make the choice between their children and their careers due to lack of affordable childcare provision, lack of family support and working practices which facilitate men's careers over that of women. I would have to earn far in excess of the national wage to retain my career. I feel we should look to other Northern European countries which practice more effective pre-school childcare systems, enabling women to continue practising their skills. Then more women could consider starting their own business.

If I could work, I could keep my family a little more comfortable, instead of every day being mere survival.

Bring back the married tax allowance or transferable tax allowances.

Far more flexible working practices.

Reduce the extortionate cost of public transport.

MitochondrialEve - teehee, what a good name!

Yes this book looks good - and Harriet Harman can have a read of it as well. Although you are right about the price (oof) - I might have a look for a secondhand one.

Of course the recession is affecting familiy life. we dont live in ivory towers, unlike politicians.

Here is what I would like to see:

Let the banks collapse, stop bailing them out. This is a disgraceful waste of tax payers money. I dont want my children to be paying for these mistakes. Use our taxes elsewhere (schools would be a good place to start).

Stop penalising savers, we rely on the interest from our savings to live on as dh runs his own business and draws a tiny salary. Those living prudently and within their means shouldnt be penalised for the excesses of others.

And please, please tell GB he is going to bankrupt this country very soon.

When is Harriet Harman going to respond to any of this?

Doesn't say she is going to respond Trixy, just asking for feedback

I support Brown and his strategies.

Trixy writes: when is HH going to respond?

Out of interest I have just had a look on the official website of HH's Department the Government Equalities Office to see if any clues there might answer this question. I wondered whether her post to MN might be part of a bigger consultation for the forthcoming Equalities Bill, for example.

So here is my other best guess - she is probably asking so she can go to Cabinet meetings armed with current views. I should think that economy and credit crunch are No 1 on the agenda every time the Cabinet meets, at the moment - well, if they weren't you'd be concerned, wouldn't you? HH will need some ammo (and ideas) to be able to fight the equalities corner - and that would be part of what this thread is providing.

Whoever collates our responses and gives them to HH to read will have a good laugh when they hear me say that in Government circles she can be thought to be a pain in the arse. Why? Because she never shuts up badgering about issues of concern to women. Whether or not you're a Labour supporter or 'like' her or not, I must say that for myself I'd rather have her on the team.

Note to any HH advisors reading this - perhaps she can get a photo taken of herself waving the sheaf of answers generated here at Gordon Brown!!

And one other thing: there's a general election due in the next year or so of course. It will be interesting to see if any of the ideas discussed here make it into Labour's manifesto.

"Opinion polls tell us that women are more concerned about the impact of the recession than men, is that your view?"
No. My Dh is worried sick.

"Is the recession affecting your family life and if so how?"
My Dh (paper industry)has just been given 30days notice of change of terms and conditions; he is being put on a 4 day week...a 20% pay cut!... and is worried that he may lose his job entirely....oh and as the job has only ever stipulated 37 hours in the office but on-machine and travelling hours as required(the job requires flying to paper machines throughout the world)this does not mean he will be working any less, just getting paid less for it!
My brother has just this morning been made redundant from his job as an engineering CAD manager.
We were very careful not to over extend ourselves with our mortgage`but the council tax, water and utility bills for our home are very high..we have already insulated to the nth degree and installed a more efficient boiler but there would be no government help for us if we were stuggling (as we may well do in the future)We would never be able to sell (without considerable loss) in order to downsize in the current climate.
Is it any wonder we worry.

"Are you getting the advice and information you need if you ask for help?"
What advice or help could we be given? Both my Dh and Db are intelligent whitecollar workers at a managerial level they understand how to manage a tight budget.I already run the house on a shoe string. We dont need advice, we need secure jobs.

"What do you want to see government doing to help with that?"
The German parent company of the firm my Dh works for went on a 20% wage cut last week...the German government soften the blow by giving them 50% of that cut back. Will our government do the same?
The Irish plant of Dhs company is losing money and producing inferior material, the EU subsidy for keeping the plant running ran out last year but the Irish government has signed up to an EU deal that means every worker would get 3 months redundancy pay for each year worked so closing it down would bankrupt the group(some workers have been there for 20 yrs)...in effect Dh is being given a 20% pay cut to pay for their inefficiency but has no such saftey net for his own job here in England...what will our government do to secure his job?

"What do you think about bonuses?"
If a company wants to use a percentage of its profits as an incentive for its staff, that is fine.But if it has made no profit, in fact quite the opposite, it is obscene for tax payers money to be handed out to reward failure.

"How can we help women who want to start their own businesses?"
What woman in their right mind would risk their families financial stability in any unproven venture when they are slapped with taxes before they even begin to see any returns.