Could MNHQ please clarify its policy with regard to tackling misinformation and disinformation on the site?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There is a lot of misinformation and disinformation here on Mumsnet. I expect most site users will be aware of this. It is not unique to Mumsnet by any means - disinformation is everywhere on the Internet these days.

The Mumsnet reporting function has an option which explicitly allows users to report posts as "misinformation". However, it is not clear to me as to what MNHQ's policy is for dealing with such reports, and I would be grateful if this could be clarified.

On previous occasions, when I have reported unequivocally false statements on Mumsnet, I have been told that MNHQ doesn't have the ability to check whether claims are factual or not, and so I should challenge the false statements on the relevant thread instead. I know that other posters have received similar responses.

I can sort of accept the explanation that the moderators may not have either the time or the skills to fact check everything, though I do personally think there is still an argument that MNHQ should take more responsibility for preventing the spread of disinformation via their site. However, I have found it harder to understand why they still provide an option for reporting misinformation if they do not actually feel that they are able to tackle it in practice. Is it merely to give the impression that they might do something about it?

Yesterday, I reported a post which contained a false statement that was presented as fact. It was not a statement that could be open to interpretation or a matter of subjective judgement. It was simply false, and demonstrably so.

I did not receive any response to the report for many hours. Then eventually I received a response which stated that the post did not break Talk Guidelines and that it would therefore be left to stand so that it could be challenged on the thread.

I responded to the email to ask for clarification as to whether misinformation or disinformation is now permitted under Talk Guidelines, and to ask what the "report misinformation" function was for if this is no longer breaking Talk Guidelines. I have not received any response to that query. However, a few minutes after sending it, I received a separate email (from the same moderator), thanking me for reporting the post in question and confirming that the post had been deleted. The email made no reference to the earlier emails, didn't explain the earlier statement that the post hadn't broken any Talk Guidelines, didn't address the questions that I had asked. I checked the thread, and the false post had indeed been deleted. But I don't think it would have been if I had not pushed back.

It is difficult to have much faith in Mumsnet moderation when such inconsistencies arise. The most charitable explanation that I can think of is that the moderator didn't really bother checking the post properly before initially deciding to allow it to stand.

I do appreciate that the moderators are human, and that they will make mistakes sometimes, but this seems to happen far more often than it should. Could MNHQ please shed some light on the specific procedures that are followed when reports of misinformation are received, and what the actual policy is with regard to dealing with misinformation and disinformation when it is identified.

Thank you

You think everyone knows when something is untrue??

I received a similar reply when I reported something recently. The wording of the reply made me think it was AI generated which could explain why it didn't address the issue.

Unfortunately as a PP said, if MN removed all the mis and dis information there would not be a lot left nowadays.

I remember before an election someone writing an outright lie about a politician as a thread title. It wasn't a matter of opinion, it was an outright lie. I reported it and was told "Challenge it on the thread then." I replied "So I can write outright lies about politicians as thread titles on mumsnet then and that's ok?" They didn't reply. The thread stayed. So yes, we can lie about people as a thread title guys.

If they can't moderate effectively, then I wish that they would restrict their moderation to the removal of illegal content only.

I think the admins would be so overworked the site would crumble if "mis-information" is a reason to take stuff down! Even the admins aren't going to be highly knowledgeable about everything posted and fact-checking everything would take them hours. Much information asked will be area specific too linked to what education/medical facilities/holiday options etc is available in the poster's area. Surely no-one posts on Mumsnet and then does what someone suggests, without checking with a relevant professional?

So they should be explicit about the fact that they don't attempt to tackle mis/disinformation on the site then. And they should remove the option to report it, because that creates a false impression that they will do something about it.

If telling outright lies is permitted under Talk Guidelines, then MNHQ should openly acknowledge this, so that site users understand where they stand.

So, what happens is someone posts something false- often to stir up moral panics, hatred or alarm. Instead of HQ removing this , a person who knows it to be false says so. This starts a debate which then allows others to believe both 'viewpoints' are valid. This is just nonsense. It's like bothsidesing flat earth.

I totally agree. But this is the reality as things currently stand, so I would at least like MNHQ to be transparent about their approach.

I think its not so much about the mis information but about what MN feel drives traffic or doesnt drive traffic.

I have seen horrific stuff on here being allowed to stand but when someone challenges it, their response is deleted as a personal attack.

How can the policy be to challenge an incorrect or offensive opinion but when we do it breaks talk guidelines when we do?

Yes, I've seen that too. And MNHQ even said on a previous thread that we should not press for evidence of a false claim if someone doesn't respond to initial requests.

With the vaxx threads, MN could have let people share and discuss opinions but also put a note on the threads outlining & linking to official advice from the NHS.

Can't remember if they did this or not.

There are ways of challenging misinformation politely.

I did get a post deleted today so obviously was not respectful enough myself in the way I phrased my response. But I do try to be polite and normally manage it.

(think your point about driving traffic is very valid btw).

I think it's true that there are ways of challenging posts without getting deleted.

However, I was disturbed by the recent guidance that we shouldn't push people too hard to evidence their claims. From my perspective, being able to press for evidence - persistently if necessary - and being able to draw conclusions when no evidence is forthcoming is a very important part of being able to "challenge disinformation on the thread".

Without that, it just turns into a bit of a pointless panto. Oh yes it is, oh no it's not...

I’ve definitely reported and had deleted posts for disinformation before. Obvious things like vaccines cause autism or the Jews did 9/11.

Other forums like Twitter use community notes to challenge disinformation but that’s not the same as the challenge appears on the disputed post rather than miles down the comments. (And although I hate it, tweets will often have someone immediately underneath posting ‘grok is this true’ which functions as a useful fact check.

Yes, I understand that. But people may disagree with you about whether there is a right or wrong in that case, whether it was self-evidently a wrong statement and wouldn’t be taken seriously etc. And in any event, any answer from MNHQ would need to be understood in the context of what you objected to.

That's good that has been your MN experience.

I love that "grok is this true" . It normally isn't.

Once again, I don't think it matters. MNHQ initially responded to say that the post didn't break Talk Guidelines and then deleted it a couple of hours later. Either it broke Talk Guidelines or it didn't.

I am not going to share what the post was about because this is not a thread about a thread, it is a wider issue.

Of course, you are right that some people would argue the toss about whether the earth is flat or whether pigs can fly. But whether or not you choose to believe me, the statement that I reported was a matter of easily verifiable fact and not subject to interpretation. I assume that this is why MNHQ eventually decided to delete it, rather than instructing me to challenge it on the thread as they so often do.

I think some official clarification would be good as to MN policy on when to intervene with misinformation, and when not to.

Perhaps. But any site that tolerates “Any witches about?” Or “Who fancies a tarot reading?” threads is a lost cause when it comes to fact checking and misleadingness in the first place!

You are making the assumption that

• attempting to tackle mis/disinformation on the site

Is the same as

• catching and removing every instance of mis/disinformation on the site and removing or adding correction to it.

These two are fundamentally different.

Attempting to tackle mis/disinformation on the site requires the moderators to check out posts/comments they happen to see or that are reported to them and removing these or adding comments correcting potential incorrect ideas and explaining their concerns.

Catching and removing every instance of mis/disinformation on the site requires them to read every post or comment BEFORE it goes live, and research the topic thoroughly if they don't know whether it is right or not. If the second is needed then the site can only run when moderators are watching it, and posts can only be uploaded at the speed that moderators can read and thoroughly research, all posts and comments. This would mean mostly comments only appeared some hours or days after they had been written, and there would be no back and fourth - you ask, I comment, you ask if I know something else based on my comment, I say I'm not sure, someone else comes one who knows more etc, would only be able to happen over days, not in 30 mins.

No, I'm not making that assumption. I'm asking MNHQ to clarify its current policy and procedures, and the guidelines that are provided to its moderators.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve also reported horrendous stuff that has been allowed to stand with ‘challenge on the thread’. My poorly expressed point there was that sometimes MNHQ do delete disinformation and sometimes they don’t, which is worse than consistently doing one or the other. If you knew it wasn’t going to be deleted you wouldn’t bother reporting, but sometimes it’s not a waste of time so you keep reporting and hoping.

That is all fair enough, but MNHQ shouldn't bother having a misinformation report button if it isn't actually going to delete misinformation. It would be more honest.

The "challenge on the thread" thing upsets me because I feel that is geared towards driving traffic at the expense of protecting posters who have reported misinformation because they don't want to "challenge" AKA "get into an argument" with the other poster.

Completely agree, Twiglets1.