Can MN confirm there is no flooding of alleged Reform bots?

[DangerQuakeRhinoSnake]

I find it hard to believe bots would post on this site anyway. Sigh. But the repeated accusations from what I assume are extreme left wing posters of so called "Reform bots" to anyone who might offer a counter opinion, is both wearying and juvenile (imo).

(Notable that this same accusation is rarely - if ever - found to be made in the opposite direction).

Please can MN confirm to all that "Reform bots" are not flooding the site?

Not sure why you are angry...

What an arrogant post.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if you think I'm arrogant. I don't value the opinions of those who are willing to defend supporters of far right racist parties.

Can you point to where I did that?

Let’s have a look at who has been killed or seriously maimed by poor immigration policy/terrorist ideology from overseas versus ‘far right nationalism’.

Immigration policy:
The poor victim in Belfast yesterday
Rhiannon White
Hundreds or thousands of women raped by grooming gangs
The 22 victims of the Manchester Arena attacks
2 victims of the Synagogue attack in October
2021 Liverpool maternity hospital bomber
David Amess (RIP)
3 victims of 2020 Reading Islamist stabbing
2 victims of February 2020 Streatham Islamist stabbing
2020 police officer stabbed by 2 Islamic fundamentalists in Whitemoor prison
3 victims of 2018 Manchester train station Islamic fundamentalist stabbing
2018 Westminster car attack
2017 attempted tube bombing (thankfully no fatalities)
2017 8 victims of London Bridge terror attack
2017 3 victims of Westminster terror attack

Far right nationalism:
Jo Cox
Victim of Callum Parslow
Finsbury Park Mosque attacker

Please do correct me if I have missed any, before clarifying how, given the above, you consider far right nationalism more dangerous than a lax immigration policy and poor control of hostile anti British migration?

Thank you for starting this discussion @DangerQuakeRhinoSnake .

I don't know whether bots are taking over or not, but there is certainly a culture of ostracising those who question prevailing views. What I do know is that I've never felt so saddened, isolated or unwelcome online on Mumsnet @BeckyAMumsnet as I did last night reading discussions about immigration and the trouble in Belfast.

What struck me wasn't disagreement, reasonable people can disagree. It was the way misinformation, sweeping generalisations and outright falsehoods were repeated as fact, while anyone asking for evidence was dismissed, shouted down or piled on. When asking for data and accurate evidence becomes controversial, something has gone badly wrong.

The atmosphere felt less like debate and more like playground bullying: rumours and half-truths spreading unchecked, people ganging up on those who question the narrative, and little interest in facts once a crowd has decided what it wants to believe.

I feel the same disappointment with Mumsnet. It no longer feels like the supportive, thoughtful community it once was. Reporting misinformation seems pointless, while inflammatory and misleading posts are allowed to stand. As a mum, it no longer feels like a safe or welcoming place to ask questions or exchange views.

What saddens me most is that the audience itself seems to have changed. Are these long time MN users or just here to spread their views.
Discussions increasingly feel taken over and dominated by political outrage and ideological point-scoring rather than the everyday conversations and mutual support that once defined the site. The sense of isolation when surrounded by misinformation and hostility is very real.

Mumsnet risks losing the people who made it what it was. When the current outrage cycle passes and those who appear only during moments of political conflict move on, what will be left? ( and Mumsnet, you will only have yourselves to blame for not managing the situation with integrity).

Their equivalents. Apologies, although I didn't specify, I thought that was obvious.

Yup, me too.

I guess we should add it to the bingo card?

Oh, ok. Isn't it the case that suppirt for the far right is now on the wane in some other European countries?

I did wonder perhaps you were talking about the US cheerleaders for the likes of Restore/Reform.

I think you make some fair points @TwoOnThe

Everything you describe also happened after the Southport murders. Then again with the Huntingdon train attacks, until the facts became clear, then it all died down and posters vanished. Then again recently with another incident in a similar vein to the Huntindon attack. And then the murder of Henry Nowak and the attack on David Ogilvie.

I am not saying those posters are bots. But they definitely ebb and flow according to whatever the current events are. Perhaps they name change, although some don't, to their credit, and stick fast to their bigotry. At least the latter are honest.

I was thinking of Australia in particular actually. But I'm sure there are others.

People post on events that happen. Although n/c occurs amongst Labour posters too.

Of course. Name-changing isn't confined to any particular political group! I name-change regularly, as many mumsnetters do. No crime in that.

But I do think some people specifically name-change to say odious things they don't want attached to their more usual names. Really nasty threads will be started by a regular poster but under a name-change, for example. Happens often. That is my point.

Hello @TwoOnThe, we're really sorry the threads felt like that to read. Please do report to us in the usual manner if you feel posters are being shouted down.

@DangerQuakeRhinoSnake on bots, we haven’t seen evidence that we're being taken over by them. Mumsnet probably isn’t the obvious first choice for large-scale bot activity in the way huge social media sites are. A post here doesn’t get automatically pushed out to millions of people because it’s getting lots of attention - it sits in a thread, where regular posters are often quick to spot if something is off. That doesn’t mean bots or organised posting can’t happen, and we do keep an eye out for it, but not every repetitive or inflammatory post is evidence of bots. We also have security settings and monitoring in place to help us spot suspicious activity, such as signals that something may not be a normal user.

Please do keep reporting specific posts that concern you. Thanks for raising it, we do hear the wider point about tone, and we don’t want posters to feel pushed out by the loudest voices.

I thought exactly this. My jaw was on the floor reading it. It felt very unmumsnet and frankly terrifying.

If it’s outside the guidelines it’ll go. Otherwise if you’re name changing and so are they it’s the same thing.

No. It is not the same thing. Like the majority, I don't name change in order to say odious things or to stir up hate.

MNHQ let lots of things stand that are v unpleasant. They don't delete everything, far from it. And the guidelines seem to vary in application from one mod to another.

I can't help but feel you might possibly have a bit of an agenda here.

The ‘agenda’ line.

You name change, so do others. But if you don’t like the moderation on the site there are others.

Thanks for the friendly suggestion, but I'm staying here for now 😊

Not that bad then. Here’s to posters doing what you do and posting as they want within guidelines.

Me too! 🙋‍♀️

Of course some people can be dicks online, but I don’t think most posters are as systematic as running through a routine as you outline.

If someone makes a contentious claim, it is perfectly usual and understandable to request evidence.

Also how can reputations be damaged on an anonymous forum? Posters simply name change. Or ride it out.

tumbleweed..

https://www.isdglobal.org/digital-dispatch/the-foundations-of-violence-the-growth-of-far-right-hate-in-the-uk/

Perhaps nobody feels like wasting time playing pigeon chess.

One random article doesn’t change what I posted. I’m not saying far right violence isn’t an issue but it’s 5% of the issue of immigration or radical Islamist related violence.