So how about a "Rationality, Scepticism & Atheism" section?

[UnquietDad]

Where people can actually have sensible discussions about the debunking of the paranormal, and the lack of evidence for any of the crystal-healing-aura-chakra-reiki-throw-your-hands-in the-air-and-say woooooooooo healing rubbish.

Because I'm getting fed up with trying to remind the people in Philosophy, Religion and Woo that we actually live in the 21st Century.

Never said I was, JV. But if I seem "provocative" it's perhaps because I put up with so much rubbish i don't even comment on.

Therefore even !!

"put up with" what are you on about
you don't have to read it
that's like saying i'm having to "put up with" this thread
i don't have to read it i just am

If I ever decide to leave this place (and I'm not, yet) it will be one of the main reasons I will cite.

Religion doesn't stack up for me either. But I don't see any need to tear down or undermine other people's faith. Undermining others' faith shows the opposite of confidence.

Crystal healing
indigo children
Reiki
Faith "healing"

etc.
etc.
etc.

I can honestly say I have never even seen a thread about any of these topics. I've seen more threads about farting fannies.

UQD - Is there a reason it bothers you so much to witness others talking about their faith? Did you grow up in a cult or something similar? Are you the son of a preacher man?

You seem especially sensitive to it.

Have you tried hiding the Philosophy, Religion and Faith topic? I think you should.

I beleive quite a number of respected scientists are open to the idea of the existence of God.

I have read Dawkins and I really get much of what he says. The main problem I have with him is his zealousness and intolerance. something he shares with many religious people of the worst kind.

Some of my favourite children's books are the Pullman trilogy which is massivly anti church/religion. I have no problem with this. I found the book insightful and with many 'truths' in it. That does not mean I now think God does not exist.

UD - I do think you are trying to hard to 'convert' people I cannot agree that belief in God is a bad thing but by the same token I have no wish to convert you to a belief in God. I don't feel threatened by atheists/agnostics I totally understand their view. It just isn't mine.

Yay! Go UQD. I hate all them arsey tossers "let's all respect each other's beliefs" bastards. There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden either. And why do they want respect? Aren't they confident in what they believe? And why do they get the position of moral superiority, reminds me of when I was a kid and expressed socialist beliefs to be met with that tolerant "you'll find out one day naive little red person" from all the Tory bastards. I'll get back in my pram now.

But there is an ongoing debate on here about the "validity" of certain subjects and whether they "deserve" to have sections all to themselves - witness the Chicken-keeper controversy and the ongoing Music debate.

How would people react if there were a section entitled "Leprechauns"? Or "Tealeaf-reading"?

swedes - I imagine those things are more visible to me as they push my buttons.

There is apparently now a flouncers topic!
here

JV - nothing of the sort. I'm a former churchgoer of the typical middle-English half-hearted woolly Christian type, who didn't even realise until the age of about 10 that you were allowed not to go to church. When I stopped trying to square everything with "belief" the world suddenly made a lot more sense.

hullygully

I have no need for anyone to 'respect my beliefs' I am merely posting here in reply to UD's thread.

I also don't think 'you will one day know better' I think your beliefs are as valid as mine. I genuinely do, in fact I often wish I didn't believe in God, life would be a lot easier in many ways.

I would be quite interested in a section entitled tea-leaf reading.

Personally I don't believe in god (or indigo children) but I can never really understand why people get so upset by those who do.

People are entitled to their beliefs. Although I don't believe I'd rather spend time with someone talking about their religion than listen to an atheist bore (usually arrogantly) about how stupid people are for believing in religion.

I like the philosophy etc section.

No-one is asking for separate sections for each belief. But religion and beliefs are an important part of many people's lives. I don't ask anyone to share my beliefs, I don't go round saying I'm better than anyone else. But a section which covers that whole area of human existence (including philosophy and atheism) doesn't seem unreasonable for a forum as large and wide-ranging as this one.

I have hidden the chicken-keepers topic. And the childcare topic. And nappies. And lots of others. Because I have no wish to get into discussions on those topics. So what's the problem?

UD -Exactly - They push your buttons. When things push my buttons in that way I sometimes try and see what is is about the way I look at things that contributes to this.

It is of course much easier to just say 'well they push my buttons so they are all tossers' I do get that.

can you hide posts from individuals rather than just topics?

But I don't do that, lazycow - (say 'well they push my buttons so they are all tossers') because that would be lazy, and easy. I try and engage in rational argument, as I have done here.

Lazycow- you're exactly the sort of person I like to talk to. I think Dawkins writes extremely well and I love him talking about evolution- I'm rereading the extended phenotype for example and its great, but he makes my skin crawl when he starts banging on about religion - as you said sooooo intolerant (and as I said earlier I don't believe in god/God). And he does come across as very arrogant (had lectures from him many moons ago - before his religious intolerance - and he came across as arrogant then too).

UQD, you just know that a section for rational sensible people to discuss sceptical and practical approaches to PSR would be incredibly dull and quite frankly not generate a fraction of the amusement that the PSR section generates.

What would you rather respond to:

"I believe that so-termed 'ghosts' are caused by nothing more than manifestations of unseen physical phenomenon coupled with hypnagogic hallucinations, what does everyone else think?"

or

"Is it possible that my new amethyst might raise my pet cat from the dead if I swing it round my head three times before bed?"

cestlavie, you have a fair point.

I maybe wish then that there were more rationalists sticking their noses into P-R-S where they aren't wanted.

jimjams - I agree Dawkins is irritable. He is a spiky debater. But that isn't the same as intolerant. if he were "tolerant" then "The God Delusion" would not be half the enjoyable read it is.

I think his irritability is the result of having had his views "challenged" by people with no clear arguments for over 20 years now. I think that would try the patience of a saint.

I know UD. I just think sometimes you are a bit over zealous and want to convert so much you come across too strongly.

I don't think indigo children and crystal healing etc make much sense and part of me does think ' what an idiot for believing that' but I really can't get as angry about it as you seem to. Also I know much of what I believe doesn't make much sense, but tbh I think much of life is a mystery and I quite like that. To have it all explained away or to even believe we can would be a little dull.

I also graduated with a science degree (admitedly Chmistry not Physics) so I understand (and love) the way of science. It is just not the be all and end all for me.

I don't want to "convert", though. I just want people to think for themselves.

UD - fair enough. I think I do think for myself though and yet I still believe in God (most of the time anyway)

Pleased to see this idea has provoked debate though!

Nothing worse than a "tumbleweed" thought...