So how about a "Rationality, Scepticism & Atheism" section?

[UnquietDad]

Where people can actually have sensible discussions about the debunking of the paranormal, and the lack of evidence for any of the crystal-healing-aura-chakra-reiki-throw-your-hands-in the-air-and-say woooooooooo healing rubbish.

Because I'm getting fed up with trying to remind the people in Philosophy, Religion and Woo that we actually live in the 21st Century.

?New opinions often appear first as jokes and fancies, then as blasphemies and treason, then as questions open to discussion, and finally as established truths.?

George Bernard Shaw

Nah Dawkins was arrogant 20 years ago imo. (Although sexy at the time in a weird sort of way).

Now that's just weird!

I alwsys thought he was arrogant and ugly!

Ha ha. This was almost 20 years ago. Piercing eyes.

Yep, I thought he was ugly back then too! Possibly more than 20 years ago... lord I've got old...

oh god do I know you

is that you yurt1?? or am I going to get confused again?

How was your break?

Good but hard work. Dh needs quite a bit of rest, wheelchair for outings and O2. all of whic is 'do-able' but hard to juggle with the kids needing lots of excercise etc. so hard to strike the right ballence. Weather was also dodgy, which didn't help.

Windmill was cool

Sounds heavy as well - lugging oxygen around the place. Glad you got to go away though xx

Have nifty portable number thanks to fabbo GP.

and niftier Os concentrator at home with hooooge back up tank that lasts 19 hours...that one would give me some biceps if I carried that one round

sort out my bingo wings in no time.

Bird shit on wheels came as a nasty shock too stupid of me not to think about it really

The reason I bother to post at all about religion is that (1) I want anyone happening across the thread to realise that there is another point of view. Otherwise they may go away thinking that 'everyone knows god exists'.

2. It's my opinion that religion (aside from being false) is bad for society. I don't just mean religious terrorists, but the whole unhealthy mind set.

3. religious people do impose their beliefs on me. They infiltrate the schools, they speak on TV about political decisions and what god wants us to do.

oh god yes. That wouldn't have occurred to me either.

oooooo unquiet dad, your long rant, I loved it - your not dawkings are you (swoon)

clearly you will be impressed by my spelling..

cathpot - I am a fan of his, although I'm not qualified to comment on whether he is ugly. I would have thought a lot of women would find him quite attractive. Personally I like his wife.

I think greyriverside makes a useful point about the need for "bolshy" interfering posting by unbelievers in PRS. (Or is it PSR? I can't remember.) It's so often stated (or implied) that the whole god/supernatural/paranormal thing is just the default mindset, and it behoves rational people to keep plugging away and demonstrating its cobblerousness. Otherwise it may well never be challenged.

"I'll stop talking about religion when the religious stop talking about science."

Um....

?

His first wife or the current incumbent?

I don't mind people believing in anything they want to. In fact I would vigorously defend their right to do so. I do mind however:

a) people exploiting the vulnerability of others by selling them cures/therapies/whatever that have no proven basis in fact, are not properly tested and at best do nothing and at worst give false hope and stop people actually doing the things that might help them.

b) people telling my children that one particular set of myths, legends and fairy stories is superior to another.

c) people saying that they realize that there is a vast array of scientific proof for something, but, actually, they prefer to believe something else because they held a pendulum over it and it went anti-clockwise.

LONG LIVE THE ENLIGHTENMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I often see the 'stopping them seeking other help' thing. Most alternative therapies are being asked to put their house in order- all the official alternative therapies I know of include some training in orthodox medicine and include a lot on 'when to refer' - signs and symptoms that need referral. This is treated as an important part of the training.

I know for example, a homeopath who was able to persuade someone to take AZT when they had, up to that point, refused.

Of course there will always be charlatans- in any walk of life- but the reason that alternative medicine is growing is because it offers something for many that orthodox cannot. And it makes people feel better - that's why people go,and then go back. They feel better. They're not interested in clinical trials. They just want to feel better.

The majority of alternative practitioners are not earning huge amounts of money either. The ones who earn the most are actually the ones that are most orthodox (eg chiropractors).

Actually, I don't, generally, have a problem with properly regulated complementary therapies. I wasn't thinking about acupuncture, for example. I was thinking about the iridology, crystal healing end of things. And the people who diagnose allergies through the post. That sort of thing.

I completely accept the placebo effect. And the fact that a therapist having time to listen to a person might in itself be curative. It's just a shame it has to be wrapped up in pseudo scientific clap trap.

UQD - do you subscribe to the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast? I suspect you do given that you mention the James Randi forum, but if not it's well worth a listen. As is Skeptoid.

I really really really want to go to TAM6 though - why aren't there any decent atheist/skeptic conferences in the UK

But yes, I'd like a Skeptics board here

Rubberduck - I don't, but i shall check it out. I only dip in and out of the JREF.

jimjams - oh, the current... Lalla.

seeker - yes, some people would go further and argue that those which are properly regulated - and tested - are, in fact, not "Complementary" or "alternative" at all, but simply "medicine".

There's stuff which works (properly tested and shown to work) and stuff which doesn't. Stuff which works is medicine. Stuff which doesn't is woo and quackery.