Disinfo campaigns

[kistanbul]

It’s evident that Mumsnet is being targeting by “people” looking to spread Russian talking points. This isn’t about troll hunting, there’s an ongoing disinfo campaign by a hostile foreign government.

What advice has Mumsnet sought on how to approach the problem? How should we respond given the ban on “troll hunting”?

(And no I’m not answering anyone innocently asking for examples. If people wish to post their own examples go ahead.)

Good post @kistanbul

I know this is for the site stuff team, but I genuinely don't know what you are talking about.
So from naivety I will ask, are you sure?

There was a thread a while back asking what MN does about bots and AI. I can't remember how it ended, but possibly the secret service operating procedure acronym, whatever that is!

TSSDNCOP.

I agree that it's obvious that the whole internet Mumsnet is being targeted. Lots of Russia/America weirdness.

@kistanbul

Second - excellent post! It seems that MN is under attack of new posters spreading Russian propaganda precisely per their playbook.

What is being done about it?

I'd agree with this. Not sure how it could feasibly be dealt with, however.

MNHQ zapped a thread earlier about Ukraine that was clearly the work of a Russian bot or maybe a Reform bot.

Is this why the AIBU discussion about Ukraine was removed after about 2 hrs this lunchtime?

I reckon so.

I have noticed propaganda against Zelenskyy being spread on MN too.

There is certainly a huge amount of disinformation on MN.

Whether that is being put out there by Russian agents or right wing Reform types, I don't know. Maybe the Reform types are Russian agents, who knows.

My biggest concern is that many people lack the critical thinking skills to identify such disinformation when they see it.

What is it that I don’t know, though? That’s the hard thing. I don’t believe the media much anymore, given several topics where the bias has been blatant.

Perhaps that’s why they’ve turned to forums, where people like me are more trusting.

But I don’t have the skill to discern AI and bots, though I’m trying.

Those who do have the critical thinking skills can report any threads that look a bit iffy, and then they can be investigated by MNHQ.

Any chance of a response to the questions?
Too many conspiracy adjacent threads “just asking questions” that serve to undermine support for Ukraine or faith in democracy.

At the moment they largely have the same tone so are very easy to spot, but they will get better at it.

It's being put out by the Russians. Reform supporters are their "useful idiots" who repeat it and disseminate it. Enthusiastically and free of charge.🙄

Do you have to one of those "prove you're a human" tests before you can join Mumsnet? If not MNHQ should bring it in.

Trolls and "useful idiots" are harder to vet.

@TooBigForMyBoots
TBF, I'd be very surprised if the thread which was pulled yesterday was from a Russian (or Reform) bot but recognise I may be wrong and others understand that tactic better than me. If it was a bot it was hugely ineffective as it just gave us all a platform to discuss why our intervention in Ukraine is so important. And I'd be very surprised if anyone was persuaded to the other side by the faux innocent questions. It's a fine line between allowing people to have discussions which include viewpoints which we may not agree with and go against prevailing opinion, and stifling healthy debate - glad I'm not responsible for calling it.

@KrankyKumquat
It’s also about testing and refining tactics - seeing what gets threads going, what messages appeal etc

The threads that are appearing now don’t worry me as much as what they will gradually learn to inform the threads they will post in six months.

There’s another about musk at the moment with a very similar style and agenda.

Thanks for your post @kistanbul. Like any online platform, some users may come with an agenda but we've not noticed any mass infiltration as you describe. In our experience, it's often long-standing and genuine users who have been active on a variety of topics for years are unfairly accused of spreading misinformation simply for expressing a different point of view.

As always, if there are concerns about anyone, please use the report function and we will take a look.

I haven’t described a mass infiltration. Not sure whether you’re confusing my comment with someone else’s, but I don’t believe there is a “mass infiltration”.

i believe an increasing number of posts are spreading disinformation in a very similar tone and there has been an uptick in such posts since the election.

This isn’t about a different point of view. If people happen to share the same views as the Russian government, that’s on them.

Has Mumsnet sought advice or offered training to moderators in disinformation campaigns?

I haven’t seen any pro Russian posts so can’t comment on those.

What I have seen however is posters being accused of being bots for expressing a different opinion. So e.g. anyone who posts anything anti labour is automatically accused of being a tori bot and MN are urged to crack down on them.

The problem with AI is that it’s given people a platform to essentially accuse other people and to create the thought process that nobody thinks the way they do.

Fact is, while a lot of people didn’t vote tori, a lot of people didn’t vote labour either, and so it stands to reason that there will be pro and anti posts on both sides.
IMO it’s likely that posters are using chat GPT to write posts to save them from doing it themselves, and that could well be why they have the same tone, and not because they’re actual bots.

But feel free to point out the pro putin posts which are apparently everywhere.

This thread isn't about Labour / Tori, I'd agree with your post if it was.
There were threads this week opened by posters who only joined a few days ago siding with Putin and Trump and spreading ridiculous lies about Ukraine. The thread was deleted pronto, you probably missed it.

It's very dangerous - they are attempting to manipulate public opinion by trying to normalise putin first. Well tried and tested technic.

but how would you classify a disinformation attempt or thread from someone just having a different view point ?

similar as hq have said if long standing posters are blamed as disinformation agents etc then realistically how can you prove one way or another ?

and in many ways these threads are no different than our modern mass media which historically has also been used by all sides as part of propaganda effort's and articles etc

overall the easiest method to counter disinforamion is either scroll on or if you do want to debate is then by debating and being part of democracy, try to prove your points with news etc sources and then the other side proves their points with news sources etc thats how we at oxford did our debates, then if soneone else tries to make a point but they cannot prove their point via news articles or books etc then we consider that disinformation.

part of the issue on here is many people want to have the freedom of speech but then when anyone disagrees or offers counter points then its oh your a bot , or your not worth debating with etc

how can people debate and have democracy when thats the results at times ?

overall the easiest method to counter disinforamion is either scroll on or if you do want to debate is then by debating and being part of democracy, try to prove your points with news etc sources and then the other side proves their points with news sources etc thats how we at oxford did our debates, then if soneone else tries to make a point but they cannot prove their point via news articles or books etc then we consider that disinformation.

But that's not really how MN works, or how MNetters use MN, is it? If only it were so easy!

Disinformation works because other posters think that the OP (and their supporters) are genuine, and on MN asking genuine questions. Whereas, in fact, they are relentless about pursuing their agenda, all wrapped up in faux ignorance, while all the time putting their 'propaganda' out, again and again.

but when you see how some people respond to debated eg troll hunting, bots, etc in many cases how can a debate even happen when some are two busy mud slinging at each other

It is not about "differences of opinion", it is about the spread of lies.

@SamCarterSG01 I don't know if you are new to MN or just name changed, but if you are new then you probably don't understand how rife the soread of lies can be on MN.

We saw it during Covid, we saw it when Russia first invaded Ukraine, in the run up to the GE, we saw it with the Southport tragedy etc. etc. and it has ramped up again recently.