Disinfo campaigns

[kistanbul]

It’s evident that Mumsnet is being targeting by “people” looking to spread Russian talking points. This isn’t about troll hunting, there’s an ongoing disinfo campaign by a hostile foreign government.

What advice has Mumsnet sought on how to approach the problem? How should we respond given the ban on “troll hunting”?

(And no I’m not answering anyone innocently asking for examples. If people wish to post their own examples go ahead.)

long time reader but new to posting,

half the time you see on threads on different topics where its peoples opinion but as soon as you look up what some of those peoples opionin is vs what the news says they can be 50/50 on right or wrong so in many ways if peoples opinion's are not matching up with political reality of what the news is saying then how can we be sure of the lies when the good percentage of people are not fully accurate and yet they can be some of the first people to shout troll or bot etc ? when you try to offer other views or different news sources etc
hope that makes sense

basically if everyone was like sheldon cooper level of knowledge and fully accurate with what they read and then resummerised then we could see there would be no misinformation or half truths etc
but because as people are the way they are it makes it more difficult to know who the true propaganda people are

If you think this is happening on MN, stay away from tiktok, which is now an open sewer of Russian propaganda and anti Labour lies. Not differences of opinion - outright, bare faced lies. Very worrying, given how young and impressionable the target demographic is.

When does a different point of view become a lie?

I agree with the concerns.

The problem is that a lie told on SM often stands in people's minds much more than the correction or even an apology down the line. People then pass on the lie and it becomes "known fact" very quickly, and eventually people give up correcting it.
That is why stopping biased propaganda and lies are important.

I think for some odd reason that there is a deliberate attempt, be they Russian bots or paid people, to influence MN against Ukraine and pro Trump. Why they think that a parenting website in the UK is a good place to go could be a matter for debate.
Our local small town FB page had a number of "anonymous" posts pro Trump/against Ukraine that are very similarly written in the last couple of weeks too, having never had anything like that before.

MN needs to work out how they will dealing with it, rather than pushing their head into the sand and saying "can't see it".

Given that the same issues keep coming up @mumsnet Is there an answer to the questions about advice and training?

Again, I haven’t said there’s been a “mass infiltration”. Would be great if you could say something to suggest this was being taken seriously.

Totally agree @kistanbul every thread starts off sensible and then gets invaded by bots

I think a lot of them are just normal people who’ve been exposed to disinfo or genuinely believe that if you just give Putin one more thing he’ll be happy.

Pretty much every talk forum in the land is being targeted, which is why it’s so infuriating that one of the biggest (Mumsnet) is being so hopelessly naive.

There will be elements of that too.

But also "sleeper agents" who spend time posting innocuous stuff to look more legitimate.

MNHQ are being wildly naive if they think they aren't being targeted.

And wilfully complicit if they allow the publication of clear russian propaganda, wherever it originates from

Perhaps MNHQ need to rethink their policy of not having any sort of marker on a poster to give a rough guide as to their credibility?

Years on MN? Rough post count?

Thank you for raising this, OP, although I am disappointed with MN’s response. This is not a matter of differing opinions; it’s about an influx of posters running interference for a hostile dictatorship.

I agree with this.

The long standing Ukraine threads are mostly populated by war mongering types who see Zelenskyy as the sainted leader of democracy. They typically shout "bot" and "troll" at everyone who doesn't think exactly as they do. Now there are numerous threads on the subject, they try to gate-keep all of these in the same way and it's incredibly disruptive.

US and NATO engaged in military activity, training and support in Ukraine for years, US precipitated the Euromaiden. When NATO started flying drones over the Black Sea, what on earth did anyone think would happen next? Zelenskyy surely knew. But, bolstered by NATO promises and his own vainglorious ambitions, he marched his country into the lion's den.

This sounds pretty pro-Putin to me.
Not his fault, Nato/Zelensky made him do it.

Wonder if HauntedBungalow remembers posting that.
Page 6 | To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US | Mumsnet

I've made no secret of my views on the issue. If you think I'm a bot, report me. Otherwise, stop being dull.

You get called a bot on here if you are not a Labour supporter, sick of it

This is a load of shit. The regulars on the Ukraine threads are desperate for a fair and enduring peace and for Putin and Russia to pay for their countless war crimes. Not sure how that makes us war mongers…

And it’s not gate-keeping to call out Russian disinformation which is a well known grey-zone warfare tactic employed by the Russian federation.

Repeatedly saying "bot" isn't countering anything. If you want to counter an argument, use your words.

When people post lies, things that are known to be untrue and have been repeatedly shown to be untrue, it gets a bit frustrating when they keep on getting posted and people are expected to counter them once again.

I suppose people just hope that some lies get through.

There’s little point engaging with posters that are clearly posting in bad faith, whether they’re bots or just useful idiots (as in the old soviet concept not just being offensive).

This is so not true.

Look we all know the truth. Even the pro Russian messages know the truth. They are not interested in this though. They are intent on sowing division because that's the only thing they've got. Great big marvellous powerful Russia and Putin have utterly humiliated themselves since their invasion of Ukraine.

We see you.