Mumsnet Corpus

[TokyoBouncyBall]

Not a TAAT, but a bit of googling as a result of a now deleted thread has led me to this:

https://fold.aston.ac.uk/handle/123456789/18

I note it says that the License is uncertain. Can you confirm that you have given permission for posts to be used in this way, or is there something that Aston might like to look into?

I note it says Users who wish to access this dataset must make a detailed application to FoLD and the researcher, as well as potentially gain additional agreement from an external organisation before they can be approved for access.

Given one of the uses it is being put to, I think it is a bit dubious to say the least.

If I read this correctly (and I may not), it should be enough that your social media person requests it.

Perhaps after Aston and MN have had their exchanges, there might be a thread on MN on which we can ask for a SAR from our accounts which would be sufficient verification that it's us, IYSWIM. Or, MN could run a thread, we could request, and they could act as a third party.

How do we recognise a subject access request (SAR)?

An individual can make a SAR verbally or in writing, including on social media. A request is valid if it is clear that the individual is asking for their own personal data. An individual does not need to use a specific form of words, refer to legislation or direct the request to a specific contact.
An individual may ask a third party (eg a relative, friend or solicitor) to make a SAR on their behalf. You may also receive a SAR made on behalf of an individual through an online portal. Before responding, you need to be satisfied that the third party making the request is entitled to act on behalf of the individual. It is the third party’s responsibility to provide evidence of their authority.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/individual-rights/individual-rights/right-of-access/

The anonymous nature of posts is a stumbling block to submitting a SAR as far as I can see, although I think someone upthread said it can be overcome by use of a code they ask you to post - think the ICO may have advice on this.

What I said on another thread:

Aston are legally required to respond to both [FOI requests and SARs].

FOI is a request for data from a public body, which includes universities, which they can turn down if they think it would violate a living person's privacy or for various other reasons.

SAR is a request for data about you and every corporate body must hand that over once they are sure that you are who the data is about.

So I could make a FOI for all the data Aston hold about AlisonDonut [the poster I was replying to] and they would be correct in saying "no, you can't have that", but you could make a SAR for that iff you were happy for a woke, captured institution whose research staff think we are "transphobes" to not only have your complete Mumsnet posting history but also your real name.

The idea that Aston send you a code or phrase that you post in OTBT and then you send them the link to the thread was just me spitballing a simple technical solution to the anonymity problem. It's similar in concept to the emailed link you get to verify your email address when you sign up to ebay. There's no legal basis to what I wrote.

I'd like to remind everyone that this doesn't just affect FWR: there's a video from a 2019 conference type event where two blokes working at Aston talk about their research into the whole of Mumsnet.

As above, I think there's a way of doing it from our actual MN accounts/usernames.

NB: nowhere near knowledgeable, just my reading of the ICO link above.

It's really worrying - more so given that the forensic linguistics department are pushing to be able to link text written around the internet to people - that makes it a really really dystopian idea; plus the fact that Random PhD student is basically trawling for thoughtcrime and has already decided that saying certain (biologically accurate) things is "wrong".

The implications are fucking huge.

Once we post on MN, they own that data.
Aston have potentially stolen MN business property. I think we'll be hearing more about this.
This undermines the spirit of anonymous posting, the terms and conditions of use and the trust between users and MN.

The seminar thingy has been cancelled.

Illness!? Sudden attack of the mums?

Sorry...runs.

😂

That's not good enough. Nikki MacLeod and Tim Grant should turn out for a Q&A as there's obviously a fair amount of concern.

"Illness" my arse.

Oh dear I bet it was cancelled

A nice reminder not to muck around with women on FWR

Well done op

They can't even be honest about why it has been cancelled

Bet they would be shouting from the rooftops and preening in virtue about cancelling a 'transphobe'

Arseholes

Huge thanks to Eden Palmer for highlighting this extremely important issue of the privacy of MN data and research ethics.

As long as they don't mistake this for being cancelled by teh ebil transphobes.

This is a very good question actually.

Yes, you would be essentially re-identifying yourself if you provide your real name, or an email address and your mumsnet username to Aston. (Mumsnet already has all this data of course, but you consented to that).

Whether you trust Aston is a separate question.

If an institution gained more personal information about a data subject during the course of the access request and then made that public, or breached GDPR in some way, they would be subject to the very highest fines from the ICO, from memory it is in the region of €20million per breach. For a university this would also come with significant reputational damage with wider implications still.

Do we think the 'illness' really means not wanting to answer questions about how they've seemingly put women at risk, stolen data and broken the law? I have a strong suspicion this is so.

I wonder if the illness is a cease and desist letter from intellectual property solicitors acting for Mumsnet Limited.

The data theft and initial research that led to the "black box" talk was by two men. Let's not blame a woman (I have eyes, Eden is female) for what men did.

Tbf I’d probably feel pretty sick if I were two terms into a PhD project that had accidentally alerted my proposed subjects into discovering an enormous, likely illegal datascrape (that my university department began when I was still in lower 6th) potentially jeopardising millions of pounds worth of research funding and landing the university with a big data breach fine.

I see Eden Palmer's conference paper is listed on the upcoming IAFLL 2024 programme. Session chaired by Prof Tim Grant. Wed 26 June: 11:30-1200

P#66 Changes in Linguistic Transphobia on Mumsnet over time, 2008-2023. Eden Palmer (Aston University, UK)

https://www.aston.ac.uk/sites/default/files/IAFLL2024_Programme%20%2826.03.24%29_4.pdf

Aston's FoLD really should consider livestreaming that, and other sessions, to MN.

Perhaps prof Tim Grant should be made aware of the stolen data his panellists work is based on.