Attitudes and posting re: autistic people

[OneFrenchEgg]

Hello MN. I am hoping this doesn't descend and isn't taken as criticism as I know this stuff is sensitive.
I use MN as a refuge from real life sometimes; it's nice in places and I've found a couple of homes.

I'm autistic. A lot of my life has been spent being criticised and out of step with the majority. The neurodiversity movement (although not perfect and I am aware of the lack of meaningful recognition and inclusion in places within it of all presentations of autism) does at least start to say we are different not damaged or faulty.

I would really welcome some position on the regular threads which either identify undesirable behaviours as autism, or attract lots of 'autistic people are really hard work, run!' comments.

I've just had a post deleted for asking that people use the 'autistic people aren't great' support thread for partners as at least it's in one place (I appreciate I was frustrated and used a less nuanced term).

But I can't imagine this attitude being ok toward other protected characteristics or other cultures. It's really depressing and sad.

I know the obvious, easy answer is case by case/don't open threads but often it's not clear. And it's not nice feeling this attitude exists in a place I have been a part of for 15 plus years.

We had 'This is My Child' many years ago - time for 'This is Me'?

Hi there @OneFrenchEgg . Thanks for getting in touch. We really appreciate the feedback and we will pass your ideas and thoughts on this upwards. In the meantime, please do keep reporting anything you think might be problematic. We're always happy to take a look, even if you're not sure if something is deletable or not. Anything that breaches our guidelines, for example ableist posts or posts that constitute personal attacks, we would certainly delete so please don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you.
I think it's the thread of acceptance that autistic people are the problem. We are a significant minority of the general population and it's a two way thing. In the same way I accept other cultures, languages, religions etc and don't see them as the problem, I think that would be helpful here. The increasing number of threads that are just written as if it's a fact autistic people are somehow difficult and lesser and to be put up with is horrible.

@OneFrenchEgg I agree with you.

Thank you @Tambatamba I appreciate it

I agree with you too. I have really noticed the ableism ramping up

It's exhausting when every single time there is a serial killer with a blank face like Lucy Letby and Chris Watts people start saying oh maybe they're autistic. abusive husband? Autistic. Cold and lacking in empathy? Must be autistic.

It makes me really cross because it's such rubbish. I'm autistic and I have at least two autistic children. I resent people painting us as psychopaths. And I particularly take issue with the autistic partners thread where that partner has no diagnosis.

Autistic people are usually very empathic and have a sense of justice and social justice. Just because our emotions don't show on our faces, does not mean that we don't have them.

I totally agree OP. But I’m afraid MNHQ are stuck in 1990’s with regard to their understanding of autism and therefore allow many ableist comments to stand - not because they want to be ableist - but because they can’t see the ableism.

I can’t see it changing any time soon. It’s easier to delete our comments pointing out the ableism than it is to tackle the site-wide ableism.

Personally I think that there is a big issue on mumsnet with some autistic women failing to recognise that other people, especially men can experience autism differently than they do. There is some real ablism displayed in their constant assertion that these men are just arseholes and not in fact struggling.

On every thread about autism there is a big rush to say how autism presents itself different in women and girls and that that is why they have had to struggled for years because of the lack of recognition of this fact. Yet at the very same time there is very little recognition of the fact that this may mean that just because they are autistic and don't act a certain way it does not mean that those behaviours in men cannot be connected to autism, and it doesn't make those men arseholes. Instead they shout down, derail, report and bitch about other peoples experiences.

I would never dream of telling someone that their experience of autism is wrong and I would like the same respect back instead of constant gaslighting and twisting of the narrative to something that suits their own narrow experience. I would like to see posters that engage in that type of behaviour warned by mumsnet to back off or face some kind of temporary ban until they agree to be respectful and stop being insulting and belittling of experiences that don't match their own.

@SnowflakeCity I don't understand your point. I see men bitching about their autistic wives on the partner threads.

If you don't want to be with someone and don't accept the way they are, 1. Don't marry them or 2. Leave so they don't face prejudice at home as well as in the outside world.

I would like to see posters that engage in that type of behaviour warned by mumsnet to back off or face some kind of temporary ban until they agree to be respectful and stop being insulting and belittling of experiences that don't match their own.

Just to be clear, you want autistic people advocating for themselves, their (male) children, the (male) people they care for, etc to be silenced and banned temporarily.

In fact, further than that. Accept that being told autistic people are the problem is correct and sit nicely while the non autistic people talk.

Hi you need to start a thread in style and beauty

Agree with you OP. The ableism on here is off the scale.

I agree wholeheartedly.

@SnowflakeCity seriously? you want neurotypical people to be able to self-diagnose their spouses as autistic then attribute any/all behaviour to autism and then have anyone that points out that certain behaviours are not necessarily down to autism to be banned?

fucking hell - you seriously can't understand why that is not ableist??

Agree with you OP

@SnowflakeCity You make a very good point - one that has been misunderstood by subsequent posters who have ironically gone some way to prove your point.

Yes, if you're not autistic then you should not talk over autistic people, end of. Same as you wouldn't / shouldn't talk over a black person and dictate their perception of prejudice if you're white.

This is not the case and is patronising. I have understood the point and disagree.

I don't think they have made their point well - I had trouble understanding what they meant.

Oh gosh. I’m new. Thank you xx

We understand perfectly. I don’t think you’ve quite understood us.

perhaps the irony is that you - presumably no -autistic - have come into a thread where autistic people are asking for more consideration given the hundreds of threads where we see bad behavioir (whether spouse, friend, colleague etc) as due to autism. Every fucking day.

I have an autistic husband and 2 males children. They are fucking awesome and far kinder, smarter and more thoughtful than most non-autistic people I have met. Throughout my life autistic men and women have been far kinder to me than non- autistic ones.

so attempts at dividing us by saying autistic women are being ableist towards autistic men are fucking pathetic.

Please just accept that there are a lot of ableist neurotypical cunts on MN (but there are also lots of lovely NT people too - I don’t like to generalise)

The increasing number of threads that are just written as if it's a fact autistic people are somehow difficult and lesser and to be put up with is horrible.

And echoed in real life, where attitudes are even worse. It's the reason I don't tell anyone, and only here under a name change.

@gerties its a struggle isn't it. There's areas I feel ok 'being' autistic and areas I would never tell anyone. Hope you're ok.