Attitudes and posting re: autistic people

[OneFrenchEgg]

Hello MN. I am hoping this doesn't descend and isn't taken as criticism as I know this stuff is sensitive.
I use MN as a refuge from real life sometimes; it's nice in places and I've found a couple of homes.

I'm autistic. A lot of my life has been spent being criticised and out of step with the majority. The neurodiversity movement (although not perfect and I am aware of the lack of meaningful recognition and inclusion in places within it of all presentations of autism) does at least start to say we are different not damaged or faulty.

I would really welcome some position on the regular threads which either identify undesirable behaviours as autism, or attract lots of 'autistic people are really hard work, run!' comments.

I've just had a post deleted for asking that people use the 'autistic people aren't great' support thread for partners as at least it's in one place (I appreciate I was frustrated and used a less nuanced term).

But I can't imagine this attitude being ok toward other protected characteristics or other cultures. It's really depressing and sad.

I know the obvious, easy answer is case by case/don't open threads but often it's not clear. And it's not nice feeling this attitude exists in a place I have been a part of for 15 plus years.

We had 'This is My Child' many years ago - time for 'This is Me'?

Please correct me if I am wrong but what I understood @SnowflakeCity to have said is this.
She feels that some autistic women here are quick to say that any "difficult" behaviour by an autistic man can not be understood as part of the way his autism presents itself, because of the fact that female people with autism don't often present in this way. That male traits are a choice, because they are simply being a male arsehole etc. rather than part of their disability.

It's sort of linked to the reasons around why masking is often different in females and males. Nature vs nurture debate etc.

I think this is really difficult.

When people ask 'could they be autistic' it could be ND-ism, or it could be the fact there is now much greater awareness of autism so people are asking whether that has been considered and ruled out. They aren't diagnosing, they are asking has it been thought about.

On the thread in relationships, my reading of it (dipping in and out) is that many posters are trying to understand their partners better, and understanding what behaviours are inherent in the autism and which are independent of autism and just rubbish partners.

When parents of children with autism go onto the ND MNers page asking for advice they are often told in no uncertain terms this isn't the place for them. Even though if someone wants to understand the point of view of teachers, they may post in The Staffroom, or of Adopters they may post in Adoption.

By definition the ND posters on MN are part of the subset of ND people who are more able in their communication skills. They can and do advocate for themselves. Some posters have clearly been ignored/belittled criticised a lot in their lives and so are very tuned in to any slight whatever the intention of the writer.

The saying goes 'when you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism'. People present differently. Some people take a criticism of one person with autism as a criticism of themselves / the whole autistic community. NT people however often can't see however how their comments can be interpreted by some ND people.

Some people use generalisations when they absolutely shouldn't. These are usually reported and deleted.

I do think the majority of posters in MN are trying very hard to be aware of autism and all its multi-faceted features but as a country we aren't there yet.

(Waits to be shot down because I haven't worded things 100% correctly.)

@copperchain reread what that poster put and tell me you sincerely believe it was in good faith.

There is a habit of assuming all negative behaviour by men is their personality, not their autism, without any attempt to work out why their autism may be the cause of their shitty behaviour. Men are also more likely to be aggressive/angry when they have a meltdown.

My brother (for instance) IS an arsehole. its caused by his black and white sense of justice, his inability to perceive other peoples feelings/emotions and his inability to regulate his own emotions.

However, he also makes zero attempt to try and mitigate those behaviours and blames everyone else and will take no personal responsibility or ever apologise for upsetting people. He shouts and screams at people then tells them they're being abusive when they invariably react negatively. that is his personality.

However, in terms of the thread (i'm AuDHD, as is my brother and my oldest child, and probably my youngest, but she lacks a diagnosis as yet) i do absolutely agree the ablism towards ND people on here at the moment is shocking, and i'm sick of seeing people armchair diagnose people with Autism when they have zero knowledge of the condition beyond the 'know someone with it' or have read about it on here from other posters.

I think there is a difference between saying 'it sounds like he is autistic' (armchair diagnosis) versus 'have you considered / ruled out autism ?' There is also an issue when this is the go-to question when the OP has only described 1 potential sign (or even not a sign at all but a stereotype) rather than a collection.

It is also difficult when posters get jumped on for saying 'is autistic' rather than 'has autism' or vice versa - I have seen it happen both ways round.

(Edited to include brackets re stereotypes)

No-one should be policing anyone's language around 'has autism' or 'is autistic' as its personal individual preference.

I use both interchangeably depending on the mood/what i'm talking about. I prefer being referred to as Autistic, but i have no objection to saying i have autism either.

I'm not quite sure why you haven't read my post but clearly you haven't. I'm not getting into it with someone who can't even give me the courtesy of reading what I said before replying to me.

Yes, clearly you didn't understand my point at all.

I was being completely sincere. I'm really sick of seeing the ablism directed at men with autism coming from some female posters on here who declare themselves to have autism. It is unhelpful and stigmatising. And no, I don't see why someone can't be warned and banned if they continue with repeated ablism just becasue they are ND.

I'm not going to come back to this thread but my post was meant completely sincerely in the context of the thread which was attitudes to autistic people on mumsnet. Personally, I do see a huge issue with attitudes towards autistic men, as an ND mother of a soon to be young man with autism I find it really sad that he would be judged so harshly and so openly by other people with autism just because he doesn't present the same way they do.

I completely understand that autistic women may want to champion other autistic women and girls and may feel a certain comradeship towards them that they don't feel towards men and boys. That is fine, we all pick the causes that we champion but it feels like a sport at this stage to shit on men who experience things differently, mainly it would seem in an effort to distance themselves from behaviours that they see as 'arsehole behaviours'.

I have not once mentioned anything about anyone self diagnosing anyone else whether in real life or on mumsnet, I haven't mentioned anyone bitching about their autistic partners, I haven't mentioned autistic partners at all. I don't know where these accusations have come from at all, all I can assume is that I hit a nerve and people are placing their own feelings in my post rather than reading my actual words.

snowflake I won't tag you as I hate that when I opt out of a thread and then get tagged anyway.
I don't think your later post fits with the original post.
I think you are saying now that autistic women on MN refuse to accept that men described negatively could be autistic and are 'just' arseholes. My point is the negativity towards suspected autism. I also do not agree at all that autistic behaviour is easy to badge as being an arsehole, but MN posters seem to hold view that autistic people are horrible and awful to live with which permeates most discussions I see on here.

i'm sick of seeing people armchair diagnose people with Autism when they have zero knowledge of the condition beyond the 'know someone with it' or have read about it on here from other posters.

Agree!

Conversely, I’m also sick of the posters who come on with a laundry list of very-autistic-sounding traits in their child, but who dismiss autism as a possibility because they have zero knowledge of the condition and think it means no eye contact, inability to show affection, blank expressionless face, inability to form friendships, zero interest in being sociable etc 😅