"boomer" thread

[Maireas]

You've hidden this evening's offensive, ageist thread, stereotyping "boomers". Will this be deleted? Can we have a robust response to ageism on MN?

But you did say people take more than their fair share and I’m curious as to what you equate as fair.

First of all I'd target people who buy houses for investment and leave them empty and, controversially, second homes used for holiday accommodation not an elderly couple or single person living in the home where they brought up their family.

@CaptainMyCaptain yes absolutely- pretty much exactly as I said in my post before:

Whether those solutions involve banning overseas buyers, increasing tax on second home ownership, grants to convert existing houses to make them more usable for the groups who need them, providing incentives and/penalties to encourage people to downsize or upsize or move location... there are lots of options which could be explored.

@LadyVictoriaSponge I think you're being deliberately obtuse. But I will humour you with my opinion, since you asked a few times. I would say it is unfair when people live in houses (sometimes more than one house) with multiple spare rooms that they aren't using. That would probably be my definition of unfairness in the context of housing.

No not being obtuse, you were skirting around my question hence wanting clarification, thanks for replying honestly.

@TheLongGloriesOfTheWinterMoon
"No.
It was fucking NOT written to pit generation against generation. It was written to protest that MN allow that to happen by allowing ageism."

I was talking about the original post and others, not this post highlighting the problem. I think we're on the same side!

First of all I'd target people who buy houses for investment and leave them empty and, controversially, second homes used for holiday accommodation not an elderly couple or single person living in the home where they brought up their family.

Yes

Whether those solutions involve banning overseas buyers, increasing tax on second home ownership, grants to convert existing houses to make them more usable for the groups who need them, providing incentives and/penalties to encourage people to downsize or upsize or move location... there are lots of options which could be explored.

And all of this

In Wales, councils can charge up to 300% Council Tax on second homes. Not sure about the rest of thecUK.

Well, that's whole swathes of Mayfair, Kensington and Chelsea to start with. Plus people like Elton John and the Beckhams. Then all the stately homes like Chatsworth, Blenheim Palace and Longleat. Lots of spare rooms there. Seems a little unfair to penalise an older couple in a 3 bed semi in that context, doesn't it?

Seems a little unfair to penalise an older couple in a 3 bed semi in that context, doesn't it?

@Maireas yes I agree, that's why I proposed debating a whole host of potential options to redress the balance, not simply to "penalise an older couple in a 3 bed semi".

Yes, I was agreeing with you, @traytablestowed and @CaptainMyCaptain - we need a creative way to deal with the housing problem.

I think those are good solutions. I was watching a programme about overseas investors buying property in Mayfair for £20m, only to use it for a few weeks of the year.

Now that is funny! 🧂

Oh well, swings and roundabouts at least MN's resident and most vile age-basher has decided her work's done here. Years she's been on here in various guises spewing hate and blaming the elderly for her own circumstamces. Hours and hours wasted being shitty on MN which could have been spent applying for better-paying jobs or studying. That's the sort of bigots MN should be rooting out but they won't because the antagonism brings traffic.

Genuinely interested in why people who have worked hard to buy their homes should be penalised or forced to move? DH and I grew up in single parent households. in poverty. We attended schools where barely anyone got qualifications let alone decent ones. Apart from a few treats we have lived pretty frugally whilst working 60-70 hours for the majority of our lives. We now have a bigger house on a lovely street. If we have our way, we will live for as long as we can. If we are fortunate we one of our children will move in with us so we can end our days here, but hopefully that is a long way off.

The problem is not young people or those that were born pre 1964. The problem is the sense of entitlement to the labour of others which so many people have. Nobody seems to care if you are stinking rich these days . Its seems to be that anyone that has more than you is some how selfish and responsible for that fact that you have less and should pay more to you for your choices.

Genuinely interested in why people who have worked hard to buy their homes should be penalised or forced to move?

@6BedsOneAcre who is actually saying that though?

Maybe the kind of people saying that this kind of thing should perhaps be explored...

"providing incentives and/penalties to encourage people to downsize or upsize or move location"

And yes, it's not your whole quote. But neither is it taken out of context.

What penalties would you propose for those refusing to downsize in your Brave New World?

What penalties would you propose for those refusing to downsize in your Brave New World?

To be fair we're already in that Brave New World.

My son who is buying a 3 bed house just told me that the mortgage will be £1, 600 a month. 😳

We're well out of London in a regional city.

But I'm sure loads of MNites will be paying horrendous sums like that and will laugh at my horror. Maybe for smaller places.

And the cost of childcare on top?

Maybe incentives would be better than penalties.

The problem isn't the over 55s possibly having a spare bedroom, as we've discussed, it's a far more complex problem than that, but I do see that complaint trotted out on MN a lot. "They should downsize!".
I live in a very lovely part of Yorkshire. In the last three years, 25% of housing has been bought by people moving up from London and the South East. I don't blame them, but it does have a knock on effect.

"providing incentives and/penalties to encourage people to downsize or upsize or move location"

And yes, it's not your whole quote. But neither is it taken out of context.

What penalties would you propose for those refusing to downsize in your Brave New World?

@TheLongGloriesOfTheWinterMoon well, firstly apologies for my typo as that was meant to say and/or penalties. I also do think you took it out of context somewhat. Irrespective of that though, and as I mentioned, I'm not an expert in housing or policies or even "Brave New Worlds". I literally just reeled out a series of things that came to my head in the moment. To answer your question directly I guess a logical proposal would be taxation. That's not to say that I necessarily think it should be implemented as a policy. But why should it be off the table? People get penalised through taxation for all sorts of things.

So, would it only be older people who have to pay a tax like this, or would it be applicable for any household with spare rooms?.

I personally would tax empty homes, rather than people's regular homes with spare bedrooms.

I bought my house assuming it would be a family house and I would need the extra bedroom. If people get taxed more for extra rooms it would also make it harder for younger people to afford to start a family

Or supposing they get a waiver, you don't pay tax on the extra room if you are trying to start a family. How long precisely after my baby was still born and I found out I couldn't have any more would it be when I would get hit with an extra tax to force me to move house in the middle of my grief?

My house that I more recently moved to was on the market for four years before we bought it. Because its in such a state that families weren't buying it because it wasn't safe for children to live in. Do we get dispensation for that? Or is the house just supposed to fall into ruin because families won't buy it and couples can't buy it.

Are older people allowed an extra bedroom for carers, or do they get taxed extra for that too, despite the fact they need the room for medical reasons.

If you have two children and live in a three bedroom house, and one of your children tragically dies, when does the extra taxation kick in? The date of death, the date of the funeral, is there a grace period?

@Insommmmnia , sorry for your loss 💐.
Your points are all valid, and just shows how easy it is to make sweeping generalisations about people's lives.