The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

orry about the ypos

Justine, I know you have stats on numbers of threads/page view/refresh etc, but have you looked at the number of transactions at all? I know that this is mainly done by you out of love etc, but from a MN business perspective, if I were in your shoes (and I'm very glad I'm not!) I would still be interested in volume and turnover of sales via the site.

I guess I would also be looking at where does MN want to be as a business in 2 or 3 years time (as I suspect that everything evolves quite quickly). Do you really want to be the equivalent of an online carboot sale? I assume that your current business model must be advertising driven. I have no real idea of how it all works but presumably advertisers are as interested in the type of person using the site merely that just the number?

In terms of hiding For Sale, I have it deleted from active convos, but when I use last 15mins/last hour it still appears. Am I doing something wrong or can I only customise Active Convos?

I would guess that a lot of longterm users would prefer to see the selling boards as something separate as we're mainly a conservative bunch albeit with left-wing tendencies. We suffer (most) paid-for adverts because they are what makes MN run. Can't really see what MN gets out of so many bumped for sale posts?

Hecate, thing is some of the peopel selling on here are selling buggies, lots of them, ten pence froma hundred pound sale isn't going to bother them.

Could it be that part of the problem that a lot of people dislike the for sale board is because of the sheet quantity of posts - and the repetitive bumping, rather than just having the odd "for sale" topic appear.

I think of it like when I'm in town - I don't mind wandering through the market having a quick browse, or looking through shop windows. I HATE it when I'm bombarded with people trying to sell me something by shoving it in my face (ie bumping......hundreds of posts.....)

I think it should be off Talk completely, and be seperately accessible from the home page instead.

How about having a form to complete so that the format is better too. Have headings to complete such as:

• Title of post (ie. what are you selling)
• New or Used
• Price of item
• Price of P&P or collection only
• If collection - location
• Category: toys, children's clothes, adults clothes, books, etc
• Condition of item
• Full description of item
• Picture
• email or other conact details

Do we need it to have a response bit? Can peole just not contact the seller directly using the contact details. That way we don't have bumping allowed either, and will avoid the whole hun issue a fair bit as well.

Feedback section linked to classifieds.

I still think it should be a free service for all, as it does bring traffic to mumsnet, which is generally a good thing.

And we need someone who moderates it regularly too - to delete any obviously dodgy posts (businesses, spam, duplicate posts, etc.)

I must admit when I joined MN last year I found the For sales boards first and kind of stayed on them without venturing out in the big wide world of MN which was more fool me - but now I only use the rest of MN and NOT the for sale boards as there is so much more to MN than selling/buying stuff plus there has been so much abuse of the site that I have stayed clear of it and if I want to buy second hand I head to my local charity shop or ebay.

But recommendations I would suggest ifyou decide to keep it/revamp it are (and forgive me if they have already been suggested)

1. A feedback system like ebay so we could go and look at that persons profile to see if they are geniune buyers/sellers.

2.Catagories - i.e. Baby clothes girls. baby clothes boys. Pre-school toys etc as at present it is far to jumbled.

3.A very small fee for each item listed and sold that can be donated to a charity, NSPCC for example.

More than X number of ads in a month and you are considered a business and charged £30 fee and £10 a month to continue to advertise then!

Or something.

Good suggestion Hulababy below.

I have to say I totally agree with Wolfgirl!

Although I must say, I don't sell things I no longer need/use or want to make any cash, I do it so i can use the few pence paid for items to buy bigger clothes etc for my boys.

I'm quite sure there ARE
a few traders lurking around, and can understand that this is not acceptable and will get peoples backs up.

However, using the word Hun Hunni or anything similar, and spelling and grammer should not be an issue.

I think "2 for sales" per email address per month is reasonable

I agree no bumping or conversation online just advert & email addy - only 'answer' allowed should be feedback

That's it

If they want to go to lots of efforts to do lots of ads and make lots of email addresses - fine - but with no bumping & limited ads - it would be virtually worthless

Personally think everything has become very inflammed in recent weeks. I am a regular on post and ante natal threads but have also posted and sold on the For sale boards. I also was given some great advice from the For Sale boards when trying to track down a company that I had ordered from.

So I do think there is a place for the For Sale boards. I think they need to be regulated more closely and I like the idea of posting an advert so to speak adding your email address and allow transactions to carry on that way after the initial post.

not read thread but I use for sale to buy and sell from time to time.
Used to be ace, now have been ripped off and had damaged goods, promised refunds and buyer still sells and buys all manner of things.
I think people selling frequently constantly using a permanent picture trail etc should pay a monthly fee for a permanent listing. Also sep category.
One off items should be free to list to those with CAT, without CAT perhaps a fee could be levied.

Personally I have found the for sale board a huge help when I was pregnant with my dd. This is how I happened to stumble across MN.

I'm sure I am not the only one who has been helped as there are mamy parents who cannot afford to buy things new all the time or who would like to help others out and make a few pennies back in return by selling their unwanted goods.

I have and still do use the other boards. But I'm am being made to feel like I'm not allowed just because I do use the sale board on a regular basis. There is always an "us and them" situation. Why is this? I thought MN was here to give support and advice to parents and families

How do you propose to attract and keep new users of ALL boards if this is going to be the way in which they are treated. It seems like there a lot of long term members who like to stick together, that's fair enough as you have obviously become very close but please give others, myself included, the chance to join in. We're not as bad as you think!

Maybe the CAT idea is a good one. That way the sale boards wouldn't be abused by the people only after making profits and would hopefully encourage people to go ahead and use the other boards first if they cannot access for sale without joining?

Sorry for the ramblings

Jeez I know I have been boggled at before for saying this, but it really is class war and those of you trying to ban or cripple the For Sale section should really go and get lives and stop whining about something that is not doing you any harm.
What's the big problem here?
Nasty posters being meeeeeeaaaan to each other? That happens on most threads about bf/ff or WOHM/SAHM or politics or religion or all sorts of wierd things.
Lots of threads that aren't relevant to individual posters- well that happens a lot too.
People getting scammed: this is just Darwinism. If you are too stupid to realise that an ad which sounds to good to be true always is too good to be true, then it's prob ably time you learned your lesson.

SO then we're left with all this piety about how people should only be allowed to pass on their outgrown stuff free or for postage only, or they should be charged £20 (£20 FFS is about a third of the weekly income of someone on benefits!). Well that's fine if you're comfortably off, but for people on a tight budget, selling the last lot of kids clothes for a few pence is the way you pay for the next lot of kids clothes. Also, if you are very skint, selling off (for instance) stuff people gave you for Xmas or your birthday such as clothes that don't fit or suit you is another way of adding a few qid to the household budget.

ANd the most baffling thing of all - some of you are whining that the sellers don't use the other talk boards? Given that the sellers on mass have been referred to as chavs, shoplifters, thick, uneducated, Vicky Pollards and illiterate... A) why are you so surprised that they don't want to use the rest of the site and B) why do you want them to use the rest of the site when there's so much moaning about their spelling, vocabulary and use of extra punctuation that fucks up people's reading machines, anyway?

If you used a form as I sugggest before then limiting the number of for sale items would be harder, as it could have people putting one item per classified ad.

If you have an open Talk type thread people may just fill it with one big post, advertising several items at once.

Maybe you should only be able to use For Sale is you have a certain number of posts/been a member for x number of days (say 30?) and that you have to have x number of posts per month thereafter.

well that went a long way to dispelling the view many hold madamez

What we do have to do is manke sure that those genuine MNetter regulars can use classifieds too, without being penalised. I know I have sold plent through MN in the past, but it tends to be all at once (like several items in one months, but them nothing for ages). I would imagine many people are like this too - such as when their child grows out of a certain size of clothing, or age range of toys.

really not sure what to sugegst as already stated most other paretnign boards and forums have a for sale and wanteds section which is self policed and runs smoothly.

i ahve absolutley no idea why it has turned so nasty on here. mumsnet is a good board which offers lots of helpo and advice and support for peopel who need it. so why can;t it cary on as it is but with a list of rules and if a member is found to contiuosly be in breach of those rules they will be warned and then banned?

Maddamez - I disagree that it would be crippled if it was taken out of Talk, and given its own link from the Home Page. People who wish to browse would click For Sale instead of Talk.

I think that people who are running a business should be treated differently (pay more) from mums who are just trying to raise a few quid (pay nothing or pennies).
but there has to be a way to make that work.

Hecate - there you are assuming that everyone that comes to MN comes in via the homepage......

I for one only visit it when a thread pops up about something that has been shown on the homepage (ie Nutella)

and actually when I was first told about MN - I was given a link to "Talk" - not to the homepage !

If for sale was not on talk I wouldnt see it. I have 'threads I'm on' bookmarked.
Which I then go to last 15 minutes or active convos.

I would be really sad to see the sale boards go. I think at least half of Toms clothes/toys i've bought off the wonderfull mums on here. If I have anything to sell (outgrown clothes/unwanted pressies), I offer on here first, then try ebay. I even buy things i'm not actually looking for . I buy more on Mumsnet than I do on ebay now as well.

Categories would be good. But please include an 'anything else' one as I keep getting jewellery i'm allergic to as pressies and other bits!

And i'm NOT a chronic bumper!