The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

Well actually (and this is probably why this annoys me), I am a trader. Fucking shoot me. Among the dozen other ways I try to keep myself and DS fed and housed, I have a market stall that I sell things on, which is not all that economically viable (I have probably run that bit at a loss, when all is said and done, for years. But stalling out sometimes brings you in a few quid in cash when you need it, never mind that when you factor in what you paid for the stock last year you're still losing). And, following a discussion thread on MN, I put a listing in For Sale relating to a book I had co-edited and published, 10 years ago, that I still had some stock of, offering copies to interested MNers at a very cheap price. I regard that as being the same as, when a thread involves someone wanting a service that a MNer offers, mentioning that one is the MNer who can provide that service (ie someone asks where they can get an antique cuckoo clock rebuilt, and someone just happens to be reading the thread who either mends clocks themselves or whose grandad does - and therefore says so on the thread).IF someone was a failed or former market trader in clothing, choosing to sell off old stock on MN for about a tenth of what it cost to buy, because you can;t bear to bin it and you need a bit of cash, doesn't make you a shoplifter or a chav or a moron.

Of course not, madamez, but there is a distinct difference between you selling off a few books, or a few things, and thread after thread after thread from the SAME person selling brand new things. A person who does not participate anywhere else on the site and who could be, for all you know, a shopkeeper taking advantage of MN's free service to overload their surplus stock.

And there are places like eBay for that.

i am also a business trader but idont do stuff via for sale boards cos i regard myself as trade

i have paid in the past for business ads..which tbh i found were crap unless you bumped and were still crap

but madamez, you're not using MN as your market stall in that example, simply offering something left over from other trading, at a later date in a different venue. If you had stocked up on your book with the intention of flogging it on MN, then that woudl be trading on MN. At least, that's how I would make the distinction - I know it's getting into a vast gray area of intentions which is impossible to police, but I'm presuning that you didn't bump your post on the hour every hour, and accost passers-by with special offers and the like.

Madamez - thing is, I have already said that I don't give a pile of crusty old wank if someone is a trader, but to come here soley as a trader, to contribute nothing else, and to endlessly seagull bump your thread in the only topic that you post in is one thing

You on the other hand contribute loads (not least in entertainment value )

you don't come here just to sell on a site that lets you do it for free rather than trading elsewhere..

Do you see the difference?

unless your entire MN persona is constructed to titillate loads of women into buying your durty books, Madamez? cunning, very cunning. i admire your commitment.

FLetchaaar, I see there is a bit of a difference, but I do think that it's getting into a bit of a witch-hunt because we don't after all know that someone who is selling more than one bag of clothing a week is an Evil Trader - the constant bumping is a problem, I understand but people might also be doing that just because they see so many others doing it and think that's the way to do it.

True madamez, first time I used For Sale boards I was forever wondering why I was reading bump on a whole variety of threads

Do we know when MNHQ are going to make a decision about the boards? Its all getting a bit repetitive now

Madamez

Well - as I said, I don't give a flying fart if someone is a trader. I don't see that as the problem here. It has been brought up, but that is a by-product of the "for sale" being so.. well... in everyones face now, as far as I care.

The problem seems to be the intractability of for salers to any kind of suggestion. That is almost certainly exacerbated by the way that the "regulars" tend to react by sarcasm and other forms of witticism that seems to pass people by (see all the false feedback threads ). All of that has created them and us.... along with about 236 other issues

If someone turned up on one of your for sale threads and asked you to put what was for sale in the title in future, how would you react?

It isn't chat, and it is in a lot of ways more insular than the rest of MN

If we could just tell them that it is infra dig not on to bump constantly then that would be fine, but that hasn't worked and sellers have basically told people who tried it to fark off.

So remove it from chat and stop bumping.

That is my minimalistic solution to the whole thing

Well I do give a flying fart and don't advertise DH's trading on here (only time he ahs offered his services was to a MNetter for free), however its not technically decided yet- if Mn bans it then Madamez will have to stop it, simple. Its MN's site after all. Or stick to the specified area, otherwise its effectively 'stealing' from MN as they have as much right to make a living, and the tradinga rea contributes towards this. 'Dont ban me I need to make a living' Ok, but so do MN.

But rules not set in stone. Yet.

I am leaning to banning all but FFP posts but would limiting sales to just second hand stuff, work to get rid of traders.

no cos a lot of traders buy second hand stuff cheap off car boots for 10 and 20p then sell it on for more. and mums often have BN stuff that never got used/worn that they need to get rid of.

That makes it sound as if Mn is the only marketplace for doing that, though? It clearly isn't. If MN made a specific stand against- for example- Ebay's bizarre ban on second happy nappy sales I'd understand, but oher than that theres plenty of places things can be sold. Supermarket notice boards- post office postcards- local papers- its not just ebay.

How much Mn want to get into the professional sales site market is completely and entirely up to them as it is their business ultimately; but expecting it as a right i think is a bit much, and it needs acknowledging that is has reached a level where if Mn continues in that vein they need to have a proper set up, which they may or may not want to, but is up to them.

MNHQ does need to define things better.

I have framed photo's that i have taken and sell online. If i listed one or 2 i could put them on for sale but really i should be posting in small businesses. (i don't have a small business ad because we are out of stock at mo ;) )

If it were to stay there needs to be mods, there needs to be categories such as boys clothes 3-6 months and if the thing you are selling has no category you go to ebay.
(thinking specifically of the brand new laptop and the WII).

I don't agree you need a profile, i have none and you could type in any old crap-just like i could be a 78 year old man for all anyone on here knows.

I think MNHQ does need to look into whether they could be liable if a transaction went wrong though.

i don't think you need to have a profile but just something so when people scrolled over your name it would say when you had joined so it would be easy for the mods to control. i do think if we made it so you had to have been on here for say 12 months before posting a for sale ad it would stop traders from joining and selling their stuff on here and not contributing elsewhere.

i like that idea NA

Bumping posts that have been written to agreed guidelines gets you told off (by Icklegem).

Mentioning that wanted or ffp posts might be better posted in the right category ditto.

Can't do right for doing wrong.

But the point being, hunker, that it is also the continuous bumping that has become an issue too. You were quite happy to post on other threads that you deemed to be in the wrong place and point this out yet when I asked why you were bumping posts you said "because she's a regular MNer and you like her!!"

Seems a bit one sided don't you think??

Have just responded to you on the other thread.

You have edited my points though.

"Because Tutter contributes to the wider MN community and she's posted in the right place."

Not sure why the talk of sides - why are you trying to turn this into a fight?

I am merely stating that the point in all this is not just wrong posts in wrong places but also the bumping which then people keep doing even though in a zillion previous posts this has been an issue. Seems I am obviously talking a whole different language. This is not an arguement or a fight. Just a difference of opinion.

But until MN resolves it, I am happy to bump posts from MNers who contribute massively to the wider MN community.

So if I post in for sale will you bump mine or am I not worthy enough?

If I see it, yep, I'll bump it

Actually, is there a case for having a single thread for MNers who feel their For Sale threads are being overlooked - in Other Subjects, perhaps? Then you could post links on that?

I think this was done before?