The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

I'm sorry I haven't been able to read all the comments on this.

I think its ridiculous that some people expect mumsnet to police the For Sale topic when they are not paying anything to post there and mumsnet isn't making anything from the sale.

having said that the For Sale board only invades my consciousness when a thread about it invades Chat or AIBU. Perhaps a rule where those using the For Sale boards can only post there and can't use the rest of mumsnet then I can live in blissful ignorance without getting annoyed that people think its strange that a trust based system doesn't work when most of those on it use it as a quasi business.

Justine and co have certainly got a lot of answers to their OP. Lots of viewpoints and suggestions.

Just as a small aside, as I do not know the for sale threads well, can you easily differentiate between someone with six children and a huge extended family, (so has a constant stream of second hand things to get rid of) and someone who is a trader?

Well Tigermoth, look all the threads by this seler, what do you think she is? A mum of six selling her second hand goods or not? This seller is selling brand new items, has her dad as delivery man, offers half price postage to repeat customers, free gifts to those who order from her. This is what the mum of six has to compete with.

Oh dear, this is not going to make me popular, but I can't see how you can ban anyone simply because they offer a good service to buyers with good incentives.

Yes, I can see that she may well be a trader, not a mum of six but (unless you can tell me otherwise) she is not passing off second hand stuff as new, and not swindling people out of goods once they have paid her.

Her crime is that apparently she is making it more difficult to for genuine regulars to sell their genuine cast offs. IMO this is competition, nothing more or less.

When I used to stall up as a casual stall holder, I knew that right next to me could be a stall run by a large scale trader selling better things more cheaply. I couldn't ask the market manager to ban that trader because their stall attracted more customers than mine - that's not how things worked. There was nothing I could do about it, however galling it was. I just had to work round it - reducing my prices, getting better stuff, offering better incentives, going to a different marketplace to sell etc etc.

I think mumsnet should definitely ensure that mums who are selling their second hand cast off have as much exposure as traders. I think that traders who do not deliver on their promises should be quickly and ruthlessly banned. And anyone making a lot of money out of mumsnet should pay more fees accordingly.

But after that, I am not sure what more you can ask for. It must be good that mumsnet are introducing a search facility for items, so if you want a 'so and so' pushchair, you can see what everyone (trader and non trader) has to sell, all in the same place.

Can I just point out that traders may not be making as much profit as a regular passing on their cast offs? Traders have to buy all their products first, either second hand or new. Not use them themselves and offset the cost of buying them out of the selling price. If a regular sells a cast off, they have got what use they need out if it first and presumably wouldn't have bought it anyway, unless they intended to use it themselves.

That was the seller that got a thread pulled as she admitted to having a market stall (not closed) but had 'hundreds' of brand new items to sell
Seems the same items have popped up again...

Sorry that should say the stall was NOW closed

Oh Helloo... Might this be me lol... Well i am pleased to tell you all that whoever it was that was so offended by me selling and giving away (although non of you mentioned that i have a FFP trail and was giving a way brand new stuff - convinient for you to leave that out) You have sucseeded in making mumsnet ban me from listing anything for sale again so i hope that this makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

However Mum of 6 - erm no.. never said i was.. I have one very special little boy who is 15 months old...however since then i have had a lot of personal medical problems and the result is a can't have any more children OK>>.. so i am literally selling everything.. whereas people may keep back a few outfits, or whatever just in case they haveanymore i know that i can't so i am selling everything... Which is why i have so much for sale,If you look you will see that it is mostly boys stuff,as my son is a boy (that sounds daft lol!)

If i am a trader...why are all my blankets blue?? My outfits boys?? Would it now make more sense for me to do girls stuff as well??????

As for my father not that it is any of your business by my dad is a Training Provider for a company who provide NVQ's, He works for a company called TTP (The Training Partnership) who deliver NVQ's in things like customer services to big and little companies. They have the contract for Tesco's for example and as you can appriciate there are a lot of Tescos around! There for in order to deliver this training he does a lot of travelling, in a company Mondeo (if thats how you spell it) not a delivery van...

If you look closely you will see that i also state that it has to be south of the midlands, as this is my fathers allocated area.

People like 123wallis will vouch for this as my dad picked up and dropped of a pushchair when we swapped...

I am just a mum OK.. .But i have a lot to sell, and to give away... I would have seen this as a benifit, certainly wish there was someone around like that when i was pregnant..

About two years ago i had a market stall.. But it closed when i got to about 8 months pregnant as i couldnt do it anymore and couldnt find anyone to cover while i had maternity, and as it is i probably wouldbnt have gone back to it anyway. Everything from this stall has now been sold. As i prevoisly stated...

I work for N POwer, In the scrutiny department, Under Andrea Proctor, on 234 Victoria Road Fenton, This is a hobby for me, and i av made some great friends. I am 21 years old, born in April.

I live in a 2 bedroomed terraced house in Meir Stoke On Trent,I have a husband Steve, and a 15 month old son Joshua. OK... If you want my bra size please feel free to ask.. but i think that a lot of people have jumped to a lot of conclusions, and actually posted utter lies or assumptions that they have made (delivery van??Never said anything about a van... 6 kids...only got the one and most poeple know that as they know about his recent surgery)

I have sold loads and loads of practically brand new stuff (as Joshua has three sets of grandparents due to one re marrying and you know what they're like...they just buy buy buy!) for next to nothing... and if it has made the price cheaper for people like missnatalie for example who lives but 10 minutes away from a shopping centre my father delivers training to frequently i have offered to deliver to save on the postage...

Where is the harm...

I can only see it if you are trying to sell and are jelous...and i cant help if people want to buy or have (as i have got FFP stuff) from me, and
as from a buyers point of view.. It must be great to have someone selling nearly new baby stuff for next to nothign - as i say.. wish there was someone around like that when i was pregnant

Like i say.. Its like play ground bullys... Putting two and two together and coming up with five.. Well i hope you feel proud of yourselves, as Mumsnet really was a bit of a lifeline for me, going through the tough time tht i had i have gained strength in knowing that the items that i would have liked my second or third to wear or play with, have gone to other childrens, who's mums i now frequently email, and who's children i ask after etc...

I ask you... where was the harm

and before all the little snappers snap.. i mentioned (gasp) that my dad is a driver..

He works on call for a recovery company called Green Flag, who happen to have a depot in our town..

Incase any of you need to know or else will suspect me FOREVER (this really is a joke!) He does this on an "on call" basis of the weekends, and so occasionally will go north depending upon where the break down is....

I just thought it easier to say he was a driver than spend half a thread explaining about the NVQ delivery.. Although apparently not lol!!! What interesting and busy little lives somepeople lead..!!

Stayce, it is great to see you on the thread, along with Tigermoth, mumofjandp, MagicDragon, all sellers who seem keen to ensure the survival of the sales board, and keen to come up with ideas and solutions as to how this can best be achieved in a way suitable to all.

As it stands, I am keen to preserve the mumsnet which I found, and which has been a life line to me, not financially, but emotionally. As I am not here to make profit, or supplement my income, but to find some interesting conversation, friendship (yes, it is possible) and great parenting advice. I come her to chat, and offload and get great parenting advice.

This is me: I am a mum of two, married to a man, educated beyond degree level, we are struggling with our failing business and go through a pretty crap time. We are currently about to leave this green isle behind, as my father is paralyzed in a wheelchair, my mum has terminal cancer, and as the only able daughter is now moving across the polar circle. Thats me in brief.

Stayce, you cannot have failed to notice all the discussions about the For Sales Board. What do you think?

Ok I have breifly read the last few posts and have got to admit I was rather upset to see people slating Stayce. I have bought some great items off of her, both new and used, either way all in good quality. I have recently had a baby and I have bought him outfits in 2 different sizes, unfortunatly he wore one and before he has worn the other he grew out of it. So i would have come on here to sell them BUT i now wonder if it is a good idea????? Stayce is a young mum and should not be made to feel guilty for selling things. My sister after having her second son is unable to have any more children she has sold most of the things she would have kept had she been having anymore. Myself I have sold items rather than bin them as i have made the decision with my dp not to have anymore children. I guess some of us through getting to know people know they are trying to help themselves and others and are not just trying to make a quick buck. I have bought a fair amount off of stayce and have not got any complaints.

fWIW,I just cannot see what is wrong with anyone being a trader here, as long as:

1. What they offer is legal, descsriptions are accurate, service is honest etc

1. Mumsnet has the resources to regulate it

1. Smaller sellers, regulars etc have as much exposure

1. Mumsnet make appropriate money out of it, to help keep the site afloat.

I don't understand why stayce has been banned.

Because currently For Sale is for getting rid of your own stuff, not trading free of charge.

i think staceys mom had got it going on, that was the issue..

Tiger me either,

Professional sellers have ebay.
This is a parenting forum.

And thank you for that insight, Cod, lol

Hiya me again!, I don't know what everyones problem with Stayce is, I've brought and swapped with her, and taken advantage of her dads delivery! and they are both really genuine people in my humble opinion I didn't know her before buying from her on mn, but have spoken to her lots in the last few weeks, and my youngest son now has some lovely things that I never would have usually been able to afford, (as I do have 5 boys 6 if you count dh!) but sold everything after my forth son. I think everyone should have the oppertunity to sell/buy just hide it if you don't want to see it and i'm not a hun!

soupdrageon, agree that it should not be free of charge
cod - very funny!

QuintessentialShadow i actually find you a rather presumstious and not particularly nice person... seeing as your asking (which i find strange in itself)

yes i was on threads discussing the best way to make this work, as i do think something needs doing

I find it hurtful that you isolate me in particular, make some comment about me having 6 kids when i personally tried forever to concieve lost one baby, got lucky again and now have Joshua, and then had to have ovary removed and be told i cant have anymore.....hence allllll the stuff for sale...

And the cheap shots regarding my fathers occupation...

I find it a personal insult....espcially seeing as you have either presumed or made half of it up.

You fail to mention that i have in my short time on mumsnet given a great deal of stuff away for free, not even postage i myself have paid for the postag off my own back, i gave clothes to a lady out of my sons own wardrobe....because hers were damaged in a flood.. i listed and ffp trail and the stuff i have sold i have made very little from, i spend £20.65 in the post office posting 8parcels this morning, and have £26.80 in my paypal account, you work the difference out and split it between 8 parcels,its not what i would call a profit is it.

again im another person feelin discusted by the way some ppl on mums net are treating stayce its like some mothers aint got anythign better to do isnt it bad enoght that alot of us mother suffer from post natel depression without having to come on a dso called friendly side and be bitched at this is not wat mums net if for its to meet nice mother to talk to as in my case i suffer bad depression and sometimes need some one to talk to but they seems to only be a few decent ppl really on here like stayce herself trying to make few pence outta the stuff she has already bought and to be honest why the heck sudnt she shes paid for it all in first place so why not get few pence she has a child to keep like the rest of us i do it i sell allsorts on here and on ebay to help buy extra treats for my child and also to do the house up some ppl really do need to grow up and butt outta wat other ppl are doing any leave good hearted ppl like stayce alone this is second time one of my friends has been bitched down on mums net in less than 2 weeks seems to happen all too much mayeb they sud shut it get get rid of all the losers on it.

Traders can fark off to Ebay. The sheer volume and the amount of cr*p that MNHQ would have to deal with would be ridiculous and (I suspect) unwanted.

The classifieds were meant for members to sell their unwanted/used items, not to be flooded by all and sundry flogging 100s of items and that's how it should stay IMO.

"mayeb they sud shut it get get rid of all the losers on it."

Oddly enough, that's kind of how I feel about the For Sale board.

but members are all and sundry and all and sundry are members....

thats wat i ment the for sale board as for all the genuine ppl on it they seems to be 10 losers

CaptainCod...Please dont... i dont even know how many times that song was played at my 18th birthday while my little 4ft 9 mum was surrounded by a gang of rowdy teenagers juming and pointing at her lol....(ooh the memories!)

So far as tigermoth and soupdragon go... Yes this is just for mums getting rid of stuff... Although last time i checked ebay was also..not just for proffesional sellers etc....

I do agree, that like the person recently who owned a baby shop on the cost and was using this a a site to get customer that they shold be on the small busniess bit..

BUT I JUST A FREAKING SIZE 8 21 YEAR OLD MUM OF ONE IN A SHITTY LITTLE TERRACE HOUSE!!

believe me....if i was a trader..i wouldnt be sat here eating beans now would i!

And anyway..it is mumsnet who have decided not to charge..not me nor you...so why are you having a problem with it? thats what i dont understand...they dont charge you and they dont charge me....so who's nose is out of joint...non of us have lost have we?? If you see what i mean.. i'm probably not making myself very clear!!

6 children was an example originally put foreward by Tigermoth. Not me. She said how do you know a seller dont have six kids to pass on from. I took your thread as an example, and asked, do you think this is somebody passing on second hand from six children or a trader. A perfectly legitimate question seeing as since 12th January you have posted many threads in For Sale, replied in Wanted, and only ever replied once in another topic. Sorry you feel singelled out. Whether you are nice or not, I dont know, and frankly I dont care.

You obviously provide a service, have sold loads to many here.

I am beginning during today to think it is not possible to both keep the sales boards and the community that is netmums.

I will now bow out with my final vote:

Scrap the sales boards.