The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

MagicDragon, do you think the problems (or peoples perception of problems) would be ironed out if the sales boards were moderated? Do you reckon a moderator who knows both the sales forum and "the sellers" (such as you describe them) and the forum in general would be useful? Somebody who could spot the actual trader, and uphold rules and regulations, would help?

but there is a reason there are no moderators on mn and i think it would apply even more in the for sale boards than elsewhere

and they would want paying it would be a full time job

Zippi, if traders had to pay for CAT, a very modest salary, or somebody's enthusiasm for the forum might, considering the revenue for the ads, it might not be so foreboding.

Moderating a chat board and moderating a trading place are two different things. I dont think that philosophy behind a non moderated forum necessarily applies to a market place.

It has to be at their own risk, mumsnet has a disclaimer, all buying done over the net is risky even on ebay, there is no guanantee you will get your money back if something goes wrong, it's a risk you take to get something cheap. I have a 100% positive feedback rating (over 900 transactions since 2001 (and before you ask, you are very welcome to check if the items have been brought from there to be resold)

Fuck it, ban the boards, scrap them, get rid, I don't care anymore, theyre still picturetrailing tons of items, still not making clear titles and still bumping every goddamn hour with kisses!

Sorry to everyone that may have wanted to use them in a decent manner and to sell on some unwanted bits with respect for everyone else on MN/for sale boards, but my vote has just moved, from keep them and set betetr rules, to get them the hell outta here.

Are they not able to stick the the guidelines made together with them last week, VS?

It has to be at their own risk, mumsnet has a disclaimer, all buying done over the net is risky even on ebay, there is no guanantee you will get your money back if something goes wrong, it's a risk you take to get something cheap. I have a 100% positive feedback rating (over 900 transactions since 2001 (and before you ask, you are very welcome to check if the items have been brought from there to be resold)

VS, whether we like it or not, I think the boards are here to stay, like Justine said earlier on, they are the busiest part of mumsnet, before chat and AIBU. Kerching! Revenue money from advertisements.

I would imagine that mumsnet, or the agency they are using, would know about demographic targeting, and already know how the different sections of mumsnet is divided regards to spending power for ad targeting, and what ads to place in what section depending on "who" we are.

It has to be at their own risk, mumsnet has a disclaimer, all buying done over the net is risky even on ebay, there is no guanantee you will get your money back if something goes wrong, it's a risk you take to get something cheap. I have a 100% positive feedback rating (over 900 transactions since 2001 (and before you ask, you are very welcome to check if the items have been brought from there to be resold)

Sorry I have no idea why that posted 3 times

I hear you Magic. I am also an ebay trader, I have one personal account (for baby gear and bits and bobs I sell) and one account with a shop for new merchandise. I did sell on ebay what I did not manage to sell on my one stint on the sales boards here. I did not like the selling experience here, much prefer ebay, so you wont see me back on the board.

QS, I was one of the few people saying keep them, and just regulate them better, but MNHQ cant be expected to sit around looking at for sale boards all day, they have enough to do, and from a thread I was just on it's pretty obvious the sellers wont stick to the 'guidelines' any other way.

Sucks really, makes all the people that are willing to give it a go lose out, I can't 'hide' the threads because I use last 15 minutes rather than active convos but I wish I bloody could now.

I have hidden all of the classified stuff, even charity request etc. I use active convos. It doesnt bother me so now. It was the feedback forum that did it for me. Seing not only the sales thread, but the feedback threads constantly bumped, there was hardly room for anything else!

What we have to bear in mind, it is not the users that "make" the board/forum. It is mnhq, if they are facilitating the whole sales process, and making feedback forums to be bumped along with all the sales threads, it is because that is what they want. Which makes me question whether we soon will see the end of mumsnet and the birth of tradingmumsnet.

Mumsnet has gained a large userbase, a good reputation, now may be the time to turn it into a much more profitable sales board, as everybody needs to eat, and cant live on idealism alone.

Also I wonder how long it will be before MN gets legally implicated in a transaction gone bad. There are suggestions of theft, fraud, misdescriptions etc

VS - I haven't been on mumsnet for quite a few weeks, (had to arrange a funeral) so I am unaware of any guidelines.
But I am assuming as these are only guidelines (probably made by a small minority of people) and not rules I suppose people do not have to follow them, if they were to become rules that would be a different story, and if people were to violate the rules they would be banned.

that again would point towards a moderated board.

all of which have the potential for libel

I don't think charging is a good idea I only use the for sale threads once in a blue moon when ds has out grown his stuff or i will reply to wanted threads if i have somthing sutiable.
I would say no bumping or reposting under a different heading for 24 hours since the ad was posted.

aitch you asked (a few messages further down) how do sellers get all that baby stuff to sell on, and surely it can't be through legal means?

I could get children's and baby stuff to sell on the threads on a daily basis if I wanted to, clothes especially - some of it new, most of it second hand but in good condition.

I assure you the way I get it is legal. It does not involve theft, shoplifting etc. But it's an insecure way of making a living, I am not interested in doing it and I don't want to give up my day job

So Tigermoth, it is something you do for profit, not just selling off stuff your own children have grown out of?

they're going to have to charge to sell here, because that's the cause of all these problems in the first place.

Getting things to sell "legally" is not a problem.
For example:
Anything left outside a charity shop is free merchandise. People actually raid them before opening hours, knowing full well that what has been left outside the door is actually classified as flytipping, and illegal. As it has not "yet" been given to the shop it does not belong to the shop, so stealing it is strictly speaking legal.

My neighbour is known for helping herself to bags for Great Ormond Street Childrens Hospital when they have their fundraising collections. This she sells. Again, not illegal as not yet donated to the recipient prior to being picked up.

Horrible yes, but some people actually subsidise their living by taking donations made to charity shops.

i don't really understand your point at all, tigermoth.

what i said was very carefully written, viz. "the only thing i can think of is that they are either stolen in some cases, bought off ebay to split and resell or (and i'm sure this represents the majority as it happens) they are constantly buying on here as well as selling."

so my point was that people were selling on goods they'd bought to sell, like you're saying you could do easily. "but if that's the case then people should need to be honest about how many people have owned it beforehand, which doesn't happen."

my concern with that is thatour fictional mum2brutusandcleapatcha then isn't selling on her unwanted goods, but someone else's. in fact, to go back to the example of the 7 times preloved buggy, they could have been owned by half of us on here.

unless that's made very clear in the advert i think it's mis-selling and plus, y'know, it's just not what those boards were supposed to be for. they weren't about profit, about dealing in second or seventh-hand goods, they were about mums doing each other a turn. and that's not what's happening if people have a living to make off the boards. can't you see that's what ebay is for?

also, Magicdragon, (very sorry about your funeral organising, i hope it wasn't too grim), but the point about the guidelines is that they were supposed to be self-regulating over there. so, it's actually up to your lovely regulars to pop onto the boards and say 'hi hunni did ya no that we have sum noo guidelines?' and they're not doing. if any of us go on and ask them nicely in proper written english they attack us as bullies who use long words. so MNHQ are deciding what to do, yes, but in the meantime it would have been promising for the future if they had shown at all willing. they haven't, which means that more and more i'm veering towards voting for them to be scrapped altogether, which is a shame as i've been vocal about wanting them to be kept until now.

I am someone who does use the for sale boards, I have managed to pick up some nice stuff for my son on there. I don't sell as to be honest the constant bumping of threads means I have to check my threads a few times a day just to get anyone to see them...

I would say take it off talk, and maybe some kind of minimal fee to sell, and free to buy - kind of like e-bay?

The problem with people not following the 'guidelines' that were agreed upon is the title of the thread listing these guidelines - most people using these boards wouldnt know about them because 'Ok ladies listen up....' (or something along those lines) just sounds like one of the many attention grabbing headers people use to show off their items.