Can there be a rule against offering money to other posters on here?

[HollyDayDream]

I know Mumsnet post a standard “don’t give more than you can afford” message on relevant threads, but would it ever be considered to make it a forum rule not to offer money to other posters? And a bigger warning about giving out your address to strangers?

Perhaps some bullet points of advice (e.g. consider going to nearest place of worship to enquire about food), links to websites or relevant nationwide charities who are able to help on emergency situations, weekends and bank holidays would be a good addition to the standard mumsnet reply message?

Lots of posters on here seem willing to give money away very quickly or give their address to strangers who we don’t know are telling the truth about their situation. I worry this makes the site a prime target for scammers, puts off genuine people posting for help, and places posters here at personal risk.

The advice from posters seems to be generic on similar posts so perhaps could be compiled into a standard reply? Or put in a sticky thread in money matters?

There could but we are all adults.
Doesn't matter how much you earn people about all the scammers on here, they will still pm them.

There was one recently who apparently responded to a pm like lightening giving her PayPal details despite saying on the thread she was definitely not looking for money in any way. 🙄

How can people teach their children internet safety when they fall for bollocks so obvious it can be seen from the international space station I have no idea.

It’s always a single mother with no family nearby, spent their last money on nappies/food, run out of credit on phone, can’t work out how to get a food bank referral, no money on the electricity meter, benefits delayed/stopped, wide-eyed claims that they don’t want money, just advice

Don't forget they always run out of money on a weekend (better still a bank holiday) so any advice can't be followed until next week...

@TheYearOfSmallThings

It’s always a single mother with no family nearby, spent their last money on nappies/food, run out of credit on phone, can’t work out how to get a food bank referral, no money on the electricity meter, benefits delayed/stopped, wide-eyed claims that they don’t want money, just advice

Don't forget they always run out of money on a weekend (better still a bank holiday) so any advice can't be followed until next week...

Yep, waiting until Easter Sunday when the shops are shut to notice there's no food in the house.

Whether or not MN let the threads stay up, they should delete the "just DMed you Hun. Give me your PayPal details and I'll send u money xx" comments.

*can not can’t

[quote pedropony76]@Inklingpot I don’t but that’s my point. I have no clue who may be a scammer and who may be genuine. The same way you have no clue[/quote]
I’m not psychic and neither are you, but it doesn’t take Mystic Meg to work out that numerous first-time posters to MN who claim that they have 37p left, no electricity, no food, no nappies, no benefits, no relatives, no friends and nothing to sell, all at Easter/Christmas suddenly deciding to register on MN to ask for ‘financial advice’ may not be quite above board.

Look, I’m not a cunt, I know people struggle - I’ve been there myself. I spent days in the fucking library because I couldn’t afford to switch the heating on.

But these people posting on here, and on Reddit, Netmums and every other online platform they can find are NOT genuine. I know a lot of MNers like to think they’re helping someone but you are not. You’re just filling the bank accounts of professional scammers. MN is a soft touch precisely because so many posters go ‘oh but years ago on MN we all supported each other and it was soooo lovely’. It may have been 15 years ago but MN is not the same place. And I’m sorry, but anyone who falls for these ‘37p’ posters is a gullible idiot.

@Inklingpot and even after all you’ve written you still cannot guarantee that EVERY person who starts a thread like that is a scammer. I hear what you’re saying though, I wouldn’t give money to anyone on the Internet either. I was just stating that you don’t know who’s genuine and who’s possible scamming people. If people on here are happy to throw their money anyway then what can we do🤷‍♀️

[quote pedropony76]@Inklingpot and even after all you’ve written you still cannot guarantee that EVERY person who starts a thread like that is a scammer. I hear what you’re saying though, I wouldn’t give money to anyone on the Internet either. I was just stating that you don’t know who’s genuine and who’s possible scamming people. If people on here are happy to throw their money anyway then what can we do🤷‍♀️[/quote]
So you’re basically agreeing with me.

My whole point is that MNHQ should not be providing a platform for scammers to prey on MNers, even if it’s well-intentioned.

I understand that there’s a line between genuine posters seeking advice and scammers. However, for anyone who has experience of identifying scammers, the language and situations they use is very basic and emotive, designed to appeal to someone who has a bit of spare cash, isn’t sure if it’s real but doesn’t mind losing £20 or so on the off chance. Hence the ‘benefits stopped, last money spent on nappies’ posts.

These people thrive on MN precisely because MNers don’t want to accept that someone could pose as a person in need for gain. There are also a lot of MNers who think that Mumsnet and the internet in general is still how it was 15-20 years ago.

I agree that MNHQ should ban people from giving money to strangers via the site. It's not just that people are being scammed it's the fact that it must put of genuine posters who genuinely just want advice.

It's amazing how stupid some posters are. Sometimes it's really obvious someone is chancing their luck and posters still offer money. They could give money direct to a food bank or similar but that wouldn't give them the same kick as giving money directly (and publicly) to a probable scammer

I really doubt that all the posters that offer money or DM about money actually send any. If someone is kind enough to offer help someone then that's wonderful, why not send your PayPal or details in case they decide to send something . I really doubt scammers are making massive amounts off MN, I expect mostly it's needed, maybe they aren't as skint as they make out, but they are desperate enough to post about it.

@Inklingpot I never said I disagree with you, I just picked up on this sentence, ‘Why on earth would you want to encourage scammers to make money from other members?’ Because you genuinely cannot prove that EVERYONE is a scammer. Some could just be people who have no shame and are happy to beg on the Internet.

I also get where you’re coming from but I don’t think any site should tell people what they can and can’t do with their own money. I think if people want to give strangers money then let them🤷‍♀️ it’s not impacting us but I get what you’re saying

How can they ban people though? Surely a lot of it is done by PM?

I think if someone is silly enough to send money to some random on the internet, then that is on them.

MN have access to our pms. They can read them and deal with any poster asking for money via pm.

[quote pedropony76]@Inklingpot and even after all you’ve written you still cannot guarantee that EVERY person who starts a thread like that is a scammer. I hear what you’re saying though, I wouldn’t give money to anyone on the Internet either. I was just stating that you don’t know who’s genuine and who’s possible scamming people. If people on here are happy to throw their money anyway then what can we do🤷‍♀️[/quote]
The point is we don't know. Paying out to one encourages others. do you give every scamming email/text/phonecall the benefit of the doubt as well? It's the same principle.

My FIL has a similar view on Foodbanks: people who have the ability to ask for help also have the ability to work or must be spending their money on other things less important than food or must just be scammers.
My take on it is that we are responsible for our own behaviour, not that of others. MN put out the warnings on begging threads but , if after that, someone decides that the want to offer material help to the poster, then that is up to them. If the original poster is disingenuous then that is for their own conscience .
If the giver offers a small amount they can afford to lose and are happy that the money may not be helping out a hungry family, then surely that is their decision?
The suggestion upthread for a standard list of emergency help agencies and places to try is a good one though. It's an immediate palliative in those cases, and would be genuinely useful to anyone reading the thread who may be in a difficult position but has decided not to post.

If the giver offers a small amount they can afford to lose and are happy that the money may not be helping out a hungry family, then surely that is their decision?

Would you think the same if it was someone in the clutches of a scammer who was bleeding them dry. Different amounts, same principle.

How long would it take before you tire of seeing every second thread some sort of begging thread? Could be the same person, different username. Always totally without food or electric always rejecting advice as wouldn't work for them and people falling for it every single time.

You can't advocate that people aren't allowed to give money to friends and family because some 'partners' are con artists, any more than you should advocate that people cannot choose to donate to someone who says that they are struggling because some people are not genuine.
So yes, although the stakes are higher my position does remain the same. People should be made aware of the risks and then allowed their own choice.

How would you enforce it? People can just PM each other contact details and sort it out off site.

The warning is helpful IMO.

Anyone with a thread asking for advice about money coz they have none should have their pms disabled automatically

[quote pedropony76]@Inklingpot and even after all you’ve written you still cannot guarantee that EVERY person who starts a thread like that is a scammer. I hear what you’re saying though, I wouldn’t give money to anyone on the Internet either. I was just stating that you don’t know who’s genuine and who’s possible scamming people. If people on here are happy to throw their money anyway then what can we do🤷‍♀️[/quote]
No you can't. But we all know how scammers operate. One scammer gets a nice wee £££ in their paypal from the well meaning and they try it again. And their friends try it, and their friends, and before you know where you are the site is swamped in similar posts from people down to their last 19p on a bank holiday.

MN are usually swift to post the message about not giving more than you can afford but agree that needs to be much stronger. Perhaps a clicky link to one of the major foodbank charities, or a recommendation that you don't send money but instead buy extra groceries next time you're in the supermarket.

How would it work?
There should be a rule against people begging maybe.
It's been going on for decades and it's much better than it used to be. There are MNers who have received weekly hampers AND complained about the contents.
Scammer's gonna scam.

What about genuine , vulnerable posters that don’t know where to turn too for help? Should they not be allowed to post? Should they need help?

I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

Surely the best option for these posts if you can’t offer the posters advice, it is best to ignore them, and get on with your day, rather than report to MNHQ.

Sadly, I think as time goes on there will be lots of posts like this sadly.

@Roselilly36

What about genuine , vulnerable posters that don’t know where to turn too for help? Should they not be allowed to post? Should they need help?

I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

Surely the best option for these posts if you can’t offer the posters advice, it is best to ignore them, and get on with your day, rather than report to MNHQ.

Sadly, I think as time goes on there will be lots of posts like this sadly.

There are fewer than there used to be tbf. Fortunately.

Perhaps disable PMs across the whole site. Can’t really see the need for them as ultimately we are all strangers. If you do know someone you would use a different platform to message.

@Roselilly36

What about genuine , vulnerable posters that don’t know where to turn too for help? Should they not be allowed to post? Should they need help?

I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

Surely the best option for these posts if you can’t offer the posters advice, it is best to ignore them, and get on with your day, rather than report to MNHQ.

Sadly, I think as time goes on there will be lots of posts like this sadly.

If you disable pms for those type of threads then the person can still get advice. Just not money

The point is we don't know. Paying out to one encourages others. do you give every scamming email/text/phonecall the benefit of the doubt as well? It's the same principle.

@gamerchick That’s literally what I’ve said… no one knows who is genuine and who isn’t. You’re asking the wrong person because I never have and never will give money to a stranger on the Internet. Just because I won’t doesn’t mean you can stop grown adults who choose to do so