Can there be a rule against offering money to other posters on here?

[HollyDayDream]

I know Mumsnet post a standard “don’t give more than you can afford” message on relevant threads, but would it ever be considered to make it a forum rule not to offer money to other posters? And a bigger warning about giving out your address to strangers?

Perhaps some bullet points of advice (e.g. consider going to nearest place of worship to enquire about food), links to websites or relevant nationwide charities who are able to help on emergency situations, weekends and bank holidays would be a good addition to the standard mumsnet reply message?

Lots of posters on here seem willing to give money away very quickly or give their address to strangers who we don’t know are telling the truth about their situation. I worry this makes the site a prime target for scammers, puts off genuine people posting for help, and places posters here at personal risk.

The advice from posters seems to be generic on similar posts so perhaps could be compiled into a standard reply? Or put in a sticky thread in money matters?

People can be so stupid that they even put a do not drink label on a bottle of bleach ..
try all you might but you can't fix stupid .

@Roselilly36

What about genuine , vulnerable posters that don’t know where to turn too for help? Should they not be allowed to post? Should they need help?

I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

Surely the best option for these posts if you can’t offer the posters advice, it is best to ignore them, and get on with your day, rather than report to MNHQ.

Sadly, I think as time goes on there will be lots of posts like this sadly.

Genuine posters accept the advice given to them because that's what they want. Scammers can't possibly access food banks, charities etc because of whatever reason. There's always an excuse why they can't do any of it (I have seen them say they don't have internet access when they're on Mumsnet!) They all ramp up over Christmas with the 'I only have £4 to spend on my 6 children for Christmas'.

@Roselilly36
I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

So you think mumsnet are wrong to delete posts which use racist, sexist or ableist abuse.

Posts which consist of extreme abuse towards others.

Overt, obvious adverts.

Sexually explicit posts about under-18s.

Slanderous / libellous posts that defame named individuals with false information.

Well, you're entitled to have that perspective, but it's not really a practical way to run a website, if you don't want to be shut down, sued or worse.

Of course they can post for help, and they SHOULD post for help. Some posters on her have some great advice about stretching budgets and accessing support.

Sending money should become an absolute no-no though.

[quote AProperStinging]@Roselilly36
I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

So you think mumsnet are wrong to delete posts which use racist, sexist or ableist abuse.

Posts which consist of extreme abuse towards others.

Overt, obvious adverts.

Sexually explicit posts about under-18s.

Slanderous / libellous posts that defame named individuals with false information.

Well, you're entitled to have that perspective, but it's not really a practical way to run a website, if you don't want to be shut down, sued or worse.[/quote]
Of course none of those examples are acceptable, that is not free speech. But is not the case with this post as well you know.

Perhaps it would be easier for Mumsnet to lock posts and leave a message directing the OP to various sources of help and advice?

Should be banned. I never give to godundme etc unless I know the real person. Far too many scammers and beggars who aren't really destitute for me.

@PurpleThistles

Perhaps it would be easier for Mumsnet to lock posts and leave a message directing the OP to various sources of help and advice?

This. Plus disable PMs.

It’s not right that kind hearted people get taken advantage of. I know it’s on them but mumsnet could make it harder

Maybe what they could do when a thread is flagged is close that posters access to private messaging. 🤷‍♀️

X post.
Great minds!

I think the warning is enough.

I posted here a few years back, I was not long out of a refuge, literally had nothing, no family, no friends that I could contact, then my tax credits stopped without warning because they decided they overpaid me that year.

I had a few people PM me offering money, which was really lovely of them (I had that username for a while and was around the boards frequently) but I didn't accept their kind offers, other posters had given me advice for my area and I managed to sort out money via a fund I was pointed to.

Not all of them are begging threads. You can't stop adults deciding to give money if they choose though. My situation was 100% real, although it may well have sounded like a scam.

You can easily make a thread asking for help without it being a begging thread. Tell people clearly you won't accept anything, don't detail how you've only got £1.41 ( or whatever it was 😈) and haven't eaten for days, tell people you've turned off PMs and ask away. Posters will fall over themselves with genuine good advice. Name change and give a location and then you would get even better advice.
I have a list of local charities that provide free meals around our city and you don't need referrals. You can eat a free meal every day of the week where I am. There are lots of charities hard at work helping at a very grass roots level. If someone was genuinely desperate they need to name change and say where they live.

@Roselilly36

Of course none of those examples are acceptable, that is not free speech. But is not the case with this post as well you know.

What on earth do you mean? Your exact words were:

I don’t support any limitations on free speech of any kind.

You said those exact words. Now are you saying you do, in fact, support a large number of limitations on free speech, of many kinds?

You've made two entirely contradictory statements about how you think this website should be managed.

Which one is true?

@Lockheart

I've been tempted to post a begging thread on here just to see how long it stayed up and how much cash I was offered (I wouldn't actually take it, to be clear).

I remember one small saga which went on over a few threads and a couple of weeks where the poster claimed to be really hard up, abusive family, her baby ended up in hospital halfway through, all very heart-rending except the story had more holes than Swiss cheese. Despite this it kept on going for far too long.

After they were eventually rumbled, one poster (who I still see about on the forums sometimes) said she'd given this scammer £100. £100!!

I mean fair play if you've got that kind of money to throw away but it shows what kind of result these con artists get. She was just one poster, who knows how much they made overall.

MN is obviously known to be a soft touch. I don't know if it's doable but I think MNHQ should try to put some sort of algorithm in tha flags PMs which mention "PayPal" / "transfer" etc etc. Maybe they do already have that, but it seems mad that these threads stay up as long as they do.

I remember that thread too. And I remember a poster saying they sent 100 quid.

I have the name long forgotten but it was so obviously a begging thread and the OP did very nicely out of it, I would say.

There should be zero tolerance for begging threads, imo. Yes, there are people in dire straits, but posting a list of resources and pointers of where to get help might help to prevent the 'I'm down to my last ha'penny that I dug out of the back of my threadbare soda, the twins need food and I live in the middle of nowhere with no family or friends' threads.
And the gullible folk or indeed the socks who offer PMs.

In my experience those most likely to give money are often those least able to, which is why something needs to be done.

A potential solution - any post on that topic is flagged and automatically moved over to Money Matters. There are some amazingly knowledgeable posters on there who would be fantastic for anyone genuinely needing advice. It also keeps all the advice given in one place and easy for those in need to find.

For those posters who aren't genuine, they'll find themselves in an echo chamber without the traffic they rely on to get those donations rolling in.

@WhereWasThatFrom

I agree that MNHQ should ban people from giving money to strangers via the site. It's not just that people are being scammed it's the fact that it must put of genuine posters who genuinely just want advice. It's amazing how stupid some posters are. Sometimes it's really obvious someone is chancing their luck and posters still offer money. They could give money direct to a food bank or similar but that wouldn't give them the same kick as giving money directly (and publicly) to a probable scammer

This.

It's not about someone who can afford to lose £10 risking it being a scammer, it's at least as much that people who really do want advice on saving money feel they can't ask.
And it's also that if people look like they're getting money ("check your PMs") then it encourages other scammers to do it.

Quick check list of typical post:

1. Posting on bank holiday/late on Saturday night so shops aren't open
2. Detail down to the penny exactly how much money they have "£1.39 after they found an extra 20p down the back of the sofa"
3. Saying they don't want money
4. They don't understand how foodbanks work
5. No friends/relatives or transport to get anywhere
6. Need nappies/formula
7. Can't do any of the suggested ways of saving/getting a bit of money

Perhaps throw in they're a survivor of DV/have twins/children with SEN to help.

I work somewhere where people come to ask for help. There's a similar set of comments that generally lead onto the discovery that they're not interested in help (which we can access) just cash (which we can't).

@MNHQ could you perhaps freeze their PMs, so people can't PM them. It's not just about them "getting away with money" it's also about others seeing that they are getting money and also posting.