Isn’t it time to stop mocking people with poor literacy?

[RickiTarr]

It’s a whole genre and it’s not really on these days is it? If it ever was?

Another one running currently. It’s a terrible look @MNHQ

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4192831-I-know-we-all-love-a-Chester-drawers-but-I-have-one-better#prettyPhoto

Ds has dyslexia we laugh about his spelling a lot.
My favorite was awwwwfisherly when he was about 10. He got an award for an amazing project he had done and his teacher came to me and said she knew it was his own work because of spelling.

I agree it is horrible. Spelling and grammar are not as important as the message and nobody should be discouraged from posting due to fear of making a mistake.

If the grammar pedants feel smug I hope they realise other readers either don't care or judge them for being rude. I expect there are very few readers who see their comments and are in awe of their superior spelling abilities.

@bruffin

Ds has dyslexia we laugh about his spelling a lot. My favorite was awwwwfisherly when he was about 10. He got an award for an amazing project he had done and his teacher came to me and said she knew it was his own work because of spelling.

As dyslexic person this made mes so sad. Your poor son. Do you really think he finds it funny?

I deliberately dont read those threads that are obviously taking the pee, its just mean girls and I am not interested.
The posts that really get to me are the ones where the OP is quite clearly distraught and is pouring her heart out only to be berated for the first half dozen responses.
' Paragraphs Op, paragraphs'!
' Ffs, it's could have, not could of......drives me mad'
'Sorry Op, couldn't get past the 'mom' are you American?????'

Now those posters need to be very very ashamed.

Text speak is my personal bugbear, but I would never berate anyone for using it - I just accept I am getting old 😁

@Lonelycrab

This is a bit of an overreaction imo.

Google or whatever can check a spelling in a second. Presumably if you’re putting up things for sale you are online and you might check?

No ones attacking anyone personally here so storm in a t cup I say

Totally agree with you.

There's a world of difference between posting on someone's thread to bitch about their SPAG & the thread in question.

The thread in question is funny, if you disagree that's fine, move on past. If people are going to sell things online, they can spell check/Google. If they don't, it really doesn't matter. It's just funny to see what people 'hear' & how that's translated in their writing.

I think the thread is ok to be honest and I do think it’s worth calling spelling errors out in some instances, for the persons sake. Yes it’s not ok to go on to someone’s thread and sneer at them but I think pointing something out politely is ok,

That thread was not about an Individual as such, more a wider conversation.

@LoisWilkersonslastnerve

Laughing at funny mistakes doesn't bother me but posters who correct people are tedious and horrible. Especially when they are asking for help. Shove your unsolicited SPAG lesson up your semi colon.

Exactly!'

I haven't seen the thread in question, just in general, nobody comes on here for a SPAG lesson.

There's a difference between laughing at a funny thing someone says or does, and ridiculing them as a person.

I lived in Germany for many years and was very grateful when people pointed out my errors because it allowed me to improve my language skills -

@Okbussitout
Yes he does , he is 25 , no need to feel sad for him in that area. Being able to laugh at yourself is a good attitude to have, it builds resilience and confidence. We laughed with him not at him

Grammar and spelling ARE important. They reveal a lot about a person. However I don't think it really matters on Facebook and MN, where it's just informal chatting. Where I do mind, as an English teacher, is when I see it in books, newspapers, magazines, or hear newsreaders and presenters using wrong grammar or otherwise mangling the language. That's their JOB and if they don't have the basics of English language then they shouldn't be doing it.

@ginghamstarfish

Grammar and spelling ARE important. They reveal a lot about a person. However I don't think it really matters on Facebook and MN, where it's just informal chatting. Where I do mind, as an English teacher, is when I see it in books, newspapers, magazines, or hear newsreaders and presenters using wrong grammar or otherwise mangling the language. That's their JOB and if they don't have the basics of English language then they shouldn't be doing it.

I agree with that. Just because it's not important on social media/online chat doesn't mean it's not important elsewhere.

I get infuriated by inappropriate apostrophes in shops/cafes. Dunelm and their 'Bath Mat's' signage etc

[quote HJ40]@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe It was a collective 'we', and that is my opinion. I do worry about it. I don't mind if that makes me sound pompous, in your opinion. I don't correct SPAG on mn but I do wonder how people will ever learn if not told. Personally I'd rather be told and then learn from it than continue blindly making the same mistakes over and over again.
[/quote]
There's a time and a place, isn't there? With an audience that you (general you) know will be receptive to it and take corrections in the spirit offered. For me this would be family, friends - and school/college..

Posting corrections on a chatboard to people you don't know is liable to cause offence. I personally don't mind if somebody picks up on my SPaG but then again, I'm not sensitive to it. If English weren't my first language or I felt sensitive about it, I would mind very much. I make typos all the time and my keyboard 'corrects' me in the wrong place sometimes, I don't always or ever, proof-read here. The point I'm making is that I don't mind being told, you would also rather be told - so that's an appreciative audience.

I also find spelling and grammar mistakes clang my nerves but, unless I was absolutely certain that my comments would be appreciated, I just STFU about them.

Why is it OK to mock someone for their parking, or for their pre-wedding behaviour, or for their mask/shopping-policing or their behaviour as a MIL, any of the other subjects that are regulars on MN but not for poor spelling?

Yes it is always a pot and kettle situation with the people that shout loudest on threads having their own issues with spelling and grammar.

The Laqueen name years back, is a case in point - always going on about others and has the most bizarre easily recognisable grammar and spelling errors. She continues to announce the arrival of each of her new usernames on here with her very distinct grammar and spelling errors. No I won't be telling you who she is so don't ask.

The reason I noticed her was precisely because of her propensity to criticise others and announce her superior writing etc.

In over 10 years I've not highlighted this to her or anyone else (until today), as secretly it's a little bit funny to continue to see such pompous behaviour.

It is a one-upmanship and will put posters that are less confident about their spelling joining in a thread, I certainly wouldn't accept my dc trying to make others feel bad about spelling/grammar.

Yes, we know it's important for effective communication, but we're not a school. I don't think text speak is the way to go obviously!

The reason it isn't the same as crap parking is that it is the only essence of a person we can see - they might actually be lying about their opinions - we won't ever really know.

However, as I mentioned above, the errors tend to stay with the person no matter what name change they use - so it is essentially part of who they are.

It's not school and it is rude to point this out. I'm not in favour of everyone winning at sports day etc, but people shouldn't be dissuaded from joining in conversation for fear of mocking. In the end, It's just another way of shutting down debate.

Bad parking can be dangerous etc bad spelling, not so much.

When we want to correct our own spellings and grammar, then yes correct our own errors in a following post, don't pick others up on it.

We can listen to what someone says and still say it's a pile of poop and sound like a dimwit if they can't see how wrong they are ie. lively debate and discussion - it's healthy and good to question everything.

Calling someone a dimwit because you've spotted an error in their spelling/grammar is not ok IMO. It is something they may not be able to change.

I always think that posters that comment not at all on the thread question or topic but just some snark about the OPs spelling or grammar, should just have their post deleted.

@TheMarzipanDildo

I don’t know, I’ve made similar mistakes (including Chester draws ) and I’m not “poorly educated”, just remarkably unobservant. I don’t hold by pulling people up on their spelling on actual threads though.

Oh I know. I have fat thumbs myself and make typos galore. Also my autocorrect is a malign and vicious creature.

I think you can usually differentiate between generally poor literacy and mistakes from a person with better overall literacy, though, and if you’re not planning on mocking or commenting on it, then thought stays safely within your own head.

I don't correct SPAG on mn but I do wonder how people will ever learn if not told.

Telling people isn't helpful. Most adults won't ever learn, and there is nothing the eager pedants can do about that. I seriously doubt many people improve their spelling and grammar by having their language criticised by strangers on the internet (most of whom pretend to be trying to be helpful but actually just want to demonstrate their supposed superiority).

Adults are usually pretty set in their ways with how they write and speak. It would take a lot of effort to get out of those habits, not just a snarky remark or two. Plus strangers on the internet are as likely to be making the same (and other) mistakes as they are to be giving you correct advice.

@Clunt

I have posted on that thread... one a family members mispronunciation very very funny he finds it funny too! The other an ad for an actual living thing for a lot of money ..the spelling is awful but understandable and also very funny(to us in private and maybe should have stayed that way) I mispronounce things all the time and also have fat thumbs and don’t proofread , as a result not sensitive about these things nor judgemental just see the funny

@Clunt thank you for posting here. I hope you don’t mind me replying in this way or feel like I’m singling you out but, since you were brave enough to come over here and join the conversation, I would like to ask you about your post on that thread because -TBH - it was one of the ones that really shocked me. (The dog advert one, I didn’t see the other one. I’ve attached screenshots of your post and the screenshot within it to help other posters follow what we are discussing.)

To be clear, there were lots of others I found similarly shocking, but you’ve distinguished yourself from the others by coming and joining this thread.

Can you tell me why you find it funny that that dog breeder has poor written English? And why it’s still quoted in your household much later?

I don’t get it and so I’m asking you straight out. Maybe I’ll learn something.

@Haffiana

Why is it OK to mock someone for their parking, or for their pre-wedding behaviour, or for their mask/shopping-policing or their behaviour as a MIL, any of the other subjects that are regulars on MN but not for poor spelling?

I think it’s because, as @Marmaladeagain says in the very wise post below yours, SPAG is something they probably can’t improve in the moment, and behaviour, be it bridezilla stuff, or what-have-you, is largely under an individual’s immediate control.

BTW I’m not claiming to be whiter than white here. I very clearly remember chuckling at “Chester Drawers” myself years ago, which I am now ashamed of.

The scales have (incrementally) fallen from my eyes now, though, and I can’t unsee how “mean girls” and vicious a lot of this mocking posting is.

@NiceGerbil

Agree.

I get why they find it amusing but on a public forum it's just mean.

Also will make any posters with less good literacy skills feel like crap.

Yeah I saw that thread and thought it was unnecessary and mean.

It's different when it's people telling stories about stuff their relatives come out with, when it comes from a place of affection.

That’s a really good summary.

I know it goes on in private Facebook groups etc - and I hope everyone is aware that anything they post anywhere can be screenshot for dissection and discussion elsewhere - but I think for MNHQ to allow it here, in the open, on a public forum is too much.

We’ve moved on a lot in the last 5-20 years in terms of being a kinder, less excluding society, and social mores change.

It just seems to me that this SPAG mockery disproportionately targets poorer people, immigrants, disadvantaged people, dyslexic people, maybe distressed people, and that none of that is really socially acceptable any more.

Obviously, I’m hoping HQ will agree with me, but I fully accept they might not.

Hello again

We're popping back to say that we're okay with the sort of thread being discussed.

We understand it's not everyone's cup of tea - but if it isn't directed to anyone on the site (which we do delete for), then generally, we think it's OK to be discussed.

As ever, we're always listening, reading and discussing feedback from users and will be doing the same for this - but we just wanted to let you know where we stand.

Please do report anything you're concerned about - we're always happy to take a look and will remove anything that we feel crosses the line.

I think I might take issue with the comment about bad spelling/grammar not being dangerous.
The difference between 'Let's eat Grandma' and 'Let's eat, Grandma' could potentially have bad consequences

Yes, I did have in mind "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" when I typed that