Banning/suspending trollhunters ?

[SerendipityJane]

Not sure if it's getting worse, or me getting grumpier, but quite a few threads of late where - despite clear and unambiguous guidelines - some posters decide to clog it up with in-thread accusations, rather than quietly clicking "report" and going about their day.

Especially in more sensitive threads it can be quite distressing to the OP.

Since it's clearly against site rules, why doesn't MNHQ ban or suspend people who insist on trollhunting ? Especially after MNHQ comment on a thread (but people "miss" it) ?

Awaits a flaming (or being called a troll )

It is vastly more important to deal with the trolls.

Totally agree with this, the harm done by sick perverts, bereavement trolls etc would be far worse than it is without the vigilance of long term posters who alert the rest of us. I report suspected trolls but have never reported anyone for trollhunting.

I reckon at this stage MN needs a mod with full powers 24/7, or at least give the NW power to suspend suspicious posters (afaik they can just hide threads/individual posts?)

Name changed for this.

I was accused of being a troll. I had been raped and because I said what had happened to me, I was accused of being a trolling male fantasy, as my rape matched a certain type of fantasy.

There was no understanding by those troll hunters that, as I was raped by a man, of course it matched his fantasy.

Even worse, a family member was really unsupportive about it all. I told them I was posting on MN. They then joined and posted on my thread, causing further upset.

According to the troll hunters, this was further evidence that I was a troll as it "never happens" apparently.

I can honestly say that not being believed when I was seeking support, was as bad for my mental health as the rape. To be mocked and accused of lying at the lowest point of my life nearly tipped me over the edge.

It isn't a case of which is more damaging: trolls or troll hunters. BOTH can be incredibly damaging to be affected by.

Omg lol...

SirChing I’m sorry for your experience.

This is the damage that trolls do. Right there. On some troll threads there will be someone they know popping in to add their pov, which added to the content of your thread would have probably looked suspicious. I don’t know what the content was btw.

However nobody should have said anything on the thread but reported and left it given how sensitive the subject was.

It’s the trolls that are causing the damage here without them you would have had the support you desperately were looking for when you posted. I’m sorry you didn’t find it and hope you’re in a better place now.

I reckon at this stage MN needs a mod with full powers 24/7

Some forums delegate moderation to a group of volunteer trusted posters who tend to span 24/7. So a reported post can be checked and deleted/hidden for review pretty quickly. Of course there might be issues with people giving their time for free for a commercial site. However if MN becomes unusable because of various forms of unmoderated behaviour then it's moot point as there's no revenue.

MNHQ could also consider a poster traffic light system, where a new poster gets a red light for the first month, yellow for one to twelve months and green for being a member for over a year. That might help soothe the jitters of some trollhunter types. Obviously the posters light would remain the same across namechanges, so a trusted poster could still change names and post with a green light. There must be the outline of something like that, since the "Sex" board requires a waiting-to-post delay.

Some forums delegate moderation to a group of volunteer trusted posters who tend to span 24/7

We already have that sort of delegation (the Night Watch) but their powers seem to be a bit too limited - or they're cautious about using them - and as I understand it, they don't automatically get reports, you have to post in the Night Watch topic to ask them to take a look at a thread. They do a good job within their constraints but maybe a rethink is needed. That post suggests that (despite having just mentioned them upthread) not everyone knows they're there let alone how to alert them.

It’s the trolls that are causing the damage here

Sorry but I really disagree. Two wrongs don't make.a right. Trolls are nasty bastards, that's obvious. But trollhunting is JUST as traumatic in its own way.

MNHQ have asked people not to do it, but some people are SO eager to be seen as 'in the know' and 'oh so much cleverer' than the rest of us, that they do it on the thread. That isnt the fault of trolls. That is the fault of trollhunters being arseholes by putting their own desire to be 'right' above the feelings of the person posting for support.

It seems that all situations which are bizarre and almost unbelievable are attributed to trolls. Yet human life can just be that awful and bizarre. So where do we go for those very times where we need support, because life has been awful and bizarre, if awful and bizarre = trolling to MN trollhunters?

The existence of trolls doesn't make trollhunting ok. Both are vile and damaging for different reasons.

.

'Trolls are nasty bastards, that's obvious. But trollhunting is JUST as traumatic in its own way. '

Exactly. I have no problem with trolls being reported and banned. It's those that leap in with 'don't share! It's a perve!' without having a clue if it is a troll or not that are tedious, as well as no doubt upsetting for someone who is not a perv.

Some seem to think it's all down to them to protect Mumsnet. Unclench!

I think anyone troll hunting should just be automatically suspended.

Then the trolls would have a field day.

There would be next to no troll hunting if there were not multiple trolls every day.

Target the cause, not the symptom.

And I don't think the traffic light system would make the slightest difference - one of the most damaging trolls MN has ever had was a long standing poster ('SS' icw bereavement; had been an MNer for months, probably years)

I think anyone troll hunting should just be automatically suspended

Trolling is at an all time high. I doubt so many threads these days but report every single day sometimes numerous times. It’s very frustrating to see a thread unfold which is obviously made up but the majority of posters are fawning and place marking etc.

They never seem to learn either but the next juicy thread they’re there again in the midst. It’s a trolls dream. People just need to stop and think and be mindful that not everyone on the internet is who they think they are.

'Then the trolls would have a field day.'

Well no. They would still get reported, deleted and suspended just we wouldn't have to see 'don't share!! It's a perve!' on any thread about plimsolls or DC wetting the bed.

There was once a thread with a mother returning to work and she had troll hunters jeering and mocking her. She was asking advice about where to bf and her rights but was labeled a 'bf troll'. She had extensive posting history. Surely troll hunter fans would agree that is not ok?

Couldn't say without seeing the thread in question.

Threads get reported but certainly overnight and at weekends it can be hours before MNHQ take any action and untold harm can be done by the trolls in that time. They know this and capitalise on it.

They wouldn’t have a field day, because if you’re not an ass you’d just report them like your supposed to and not clog up the thread.

SirChing

That is so awful and I'm so sorry

I keep seeing threads that are fairly reasonable on premise being removed because people have reported it and MN want to 'look behind the scenes'. Well its crap. I always question if it was me posting something a bit out there, how awful that would feel. The answer is really shit. It's happening too much.

untold harm can be done by the trolls in that time

What ACTUAL harm can a troll do in that time? If posters took MNHQ advice not to give more, either emotionally or financially, than they can afford, how are people actually mentally harmed by trolling? They may feel shit, or triggered, but a non troll thread on the same subject could do that. People choose whether to respond and share their views. It isn't compulsory.

The troll may sit and wank themselves into oblivion over plimsolls or whatever, but we dont actually KNOW that they are doing that. If it exists, there is a kink for it, so people could be wanking over gardening threads for all anyone knows.

I am fed up with some posters thinking that troll hunting is ok, when a REAL poster who is falsely accused of lying is just as traumatised, if not more so, as anyone who has been affected by a troll thread.

That’s the thing though, a lot of posters do invest a fair amount of time and emotion on certain threads. Triggering some awful past event sometimes, getting caught up with it all.

If we can’t even say things like “oh really?” on the “innocent” troll threads this is just going to lead to a forum of an abundance of ridiculous threads week in week out.

Have to say I remember one thread years ago where an OP posted that she had heard her husband actually having sex with another woman. And loads of posters gave the most lovely support and even financial and legal advice. Some posters talked about their own divorces and some were actually legally qualified.

Anyway the thread went on, until the details became so bizarre it became obvious it was a wind up. By then hundreds had posted and some were really left feeling quite taken in and exploited. After all some had recalled quite painful experiences in order to reasure the OP. It put sone off posting on such topics again.

So yeah it can hurt others, however not all are so involved and I suspect the pendulum has swing too far the other way.

That’s the thing though, a lot of posters do invest a fair amount of time and emotion on certain threads. Triggering some awful past event sometimes, getting caught up with it all

We are told not to invest more than we can afford. So if people choose to do so, that is really beyond anyone else's control. It is impossible to know who is telling the truth or not online, but PRESUMING someone is a troll, with no evidence, is the most bloody awful feeling when you know you are telling the truth.

I my case, it was one of the reasons I didn't press charges against the man who raped me. If a load of women here didn't believe me, what chance would I have had in court?

And no, you aren't meant to say 'oh really' because MNHQ have SAID you can't. It's a private site. If the owners don't want you to troll hunt, but just quietly report, who is arrogant enough to think that they should go against their wishes?

Please don't get me wrong. Trolls are arseholes. There isn't enough contempt available in the world for bereavement trolls etc. They are sick scum.

I agree with @Catherine above. People get hurt on both sides, but the trollhunting now goes too far.

“Oh really” in your case SirChing would have been disgusting. I’m absolutely not talking about threads as sensitive and emotional as yours. The ones that the spring to mind are the blatant, silly troll threads that get eventually get zapped.

“Oh really” in your case SirChing would have been disgusting. I’m absolutely not talking about threads as sensitive and emotional as yours. The ones that the spring to mind are the blatant, silly troll threads that get eventually get zapped.'

But that's the whole point!! No one cares on the blatant silly troll threads. However troll hunters do it on any thread that mentions their trigger subjects ie school uniform, wee, poo, periods, bereavement, the list goes on and on. Just be aware it might be a genuine poster that is all.

Thanks to @SerendipityJane for starting this discussion - it's a live topic in the office too. And thank you to the contributors who have shared their own thoughts and personal stories about the effects of both trolls and troll hunting.

We've been wanting to have a chat about troll hunting as we’ve noticed it’s happening more often on the boards recently. As many of you already know, our Talk guidelines ask Mumsnetters not to troll hunt on threads but to report concerns to MNHQ via the report button instead. The main reason being that when people accuse others of trolling in public, either they're wrong, and perfectly innocent users feel chased off the site; or they're right and the troll gets a ton of attention - which is exactly what they came here for. It's a lose-lose situation, which is why we try to keep it off the boards. With that in mind, we’re going to be taking a tougher line on troll hunting and we thought it was only fair to give everyone a heads up.

Don't panic - we aren't going to be slinging anyone off the site immediately for questioning it where they suspect something is amiss, but you might find you get a mail from us to remind you to cease and desist if you do get caught up in troll hunting. And if we find there are repeat offenders who, despite deletions and warnings, keep ploughing on, we will issue suspensions and bans if necessary.

We have moderators working most hours of the day and night to attend to your reports but if it's early hours of the morning, you can always pop over to the Nightwatch board and let one of our Nightwatchers know if you think something is a bit dodgy - they can hide the thread until we get to see it.

Please do ask here if you have any questions and we'll do our best to answer them.