Babylon: GP at hand - all thoughts welcome

[MichaelMumsnet]

Hi folks,

Mumsnet is looking to team up with Babylon to promote their free NHS "GP at hand" service (available to people living or working within 40 minutes of a GP at hand clinic) and Babylon’s paid online doctor (available to all UK residents).

Babylon offers both a free NHS and private 24/7 GP service, which lets members have virtual doctor’s appointments from their mobile, arrange prescriptions for local collection and get specialist referrals.

To get the service for free, you need to live or work within 40 minutes of a GP at hand clinic and switch your registered NHS GP practice to GP at hand, Babylon’s NHS offering. When you register for GP at hand, you will be de-registered from your current GP practice. If you’d prefer to stay with your current GP, you can use the Babylon service on a pay as you go or subscription basis for quick, easy access to doctors anytime.

If you’re not sure whether you need to see a doctor, Babylon offers an AI symptom checker which you can access for free via their app. The app also has a handy tool called Healthcheck, which creates a free health report for you and suggests changes you can make to live a healthier lifestyle.

We think these services could be genuinely useful to parents (and non-parents) and we'd love to know what you think too – all thoughts and comments gratefully received!

MNHQ

Concerns about data and marketing

“You will also provide us with a copy of identification documentation for ID checks to be carried out by one of our commercial partners.”

“We use your email address and/or phone number to contact you with occasional updates and marketing messages where you have not opted out, based on our legitimate interest in marketing our services to you and subject to your right to opt out at any time.”

At Babylon we take privacy very seriously. You can read the overview of our approach to data security, data control, data safety and medical records here, as well as access detailed information on this important subject (link).

Babylon will never share your data with a third party without your permission, and patients are able to personally control how their data is used. All patient data is encrypted and stored securely in the UK. Babylon adhere to all data and security standards. In addition, it's also worth noting that identity checks are already carried out when registering with any NHS GP practice, and Babylon treats the security and privacy of your healthcare with no less care or attention.

“If you use our other services (including our private service), and if you have given consent for us to do so, we will send the consultation notes that we take during your use of the private service to your NHS GP (for minors, we will share such notes, in line with medical guidelines, without such consent).”

We believe that an integrated approach to healthcare helps maintain quality and continuity. Where you consent, we will share your consultations with your usual primary care provider, to help maintain care across organisational boundaries.

What is the user data being used for by Babylon? The current T&Cs have a heavy slant towards marketing and data mining. Who are the 3rd parties and what do they do with users data?

User data is used with great care, as per our terms and conditions. With your consent, you can also participate in the advancement of clinical artificial intelligence and data science, improving the speed and quality of care for not just yourself, but for the millions of people globally that stand to benefit from accessible and affordable healthcare.

Reposting:
Glasgow GP Dr Margaret McCartney said: ‘[Babylon is] very good at getting publicity. This is not a good test of safety, accuracy, assessing impact on other areas in NHS. There is a huge need for better tech in the NHS. But NHS having to mop up costs of supply led demand - and this isn't sorting out basic issues.’

www.gponline.com/gps-question-babylon-test-found-ai-on-par-practising-doctors/article/1486351

@MichaelMumsnet I for one am not interested in a dialogue with Babylon Healthcare, I am far more interested in whether Mumsnet intends to go ahead with this partnership, which is what this thread sought our opinions on.

Sounds like a disaster ready to happen.

Here's an alternative:

My GP practice has signed up to Push Doctor, a different online GP service. You remain registered at the GP practice, but have the option of video appointment with an online GP. This is very useful for people who work in jobs where phoning up at exactly the right time, or answering the phone call from the GP, is tricky. You can video-call the same GP and have continuity of care. You still have the option of face-to-face contact with your GP at your practice, so you don't need to travel nearly an hour for, say, a blood pressure checkup.

I've used the service, and am pleased with it. No way would I ever de-reg from my GP practice to use it, though.

Is the position that if we are signed up to MN our data will be shared in ANY way or circumstances WITHOUT AN ADDITIONAL extra yes thats ok, or will companies like this simply full under a general third party sharing authorised by MN?

Becuase I would be VERY VERY unhappy if ANYTHING related to a health service of this nature was shared even in general terms.

It needs to be EXPLICIT with an OPT OUT.

Anything less wouldnt be acceptable to me. Especially given what I have campaigned on MN for over the years.

This is clear as mud, and I am extremely concerned and angry over this.

This is NOT EVIDENCE LED HEALTH CARE.

I don't recall MNHQ, after seeking posters' opinion's on the subject, posting Bounty's responses to criticisms in a webchat-lite like this.

@MNHQ, I say again, you asked for posters' opinions on this proposed partnership. Opinions have been given, many of them from experienced HCPs who know what they are talking about.

Do you still intend to go ahead with this?

And I agree with BoreOfWhabylon

I do not wish to engage or being patronisingly reassured by a commerical company in this way. Their agenda is to make money first. Not patient well being across the board.

I find it distasteful that they are now taking questions / giving responses.

My agreement of trust is with MN. Not some corporate group who will exploit the system for profit.

MN are NOT putting women first with this.

Yes you want to make money. But this is a step too far and a price too high.

I am far more interested in whether Mumsnet intends to go ahead with this partnership, which is what this thread sought our opinions on.

This.

Babylon can crack on with their business, I don't agree with it but that's life, however I don't think MN should be actively endorsing them or working in partnership with them.

The fact that @MNHQ is here vouching for Babylon tells me that the deal is probably already done, although I'm cynical like that.

I think a deal has already been done.

This is an attempt to make us all ok with it.

This is lip service.

It's certainly looking that way Red.

I'll wait for confirmation from MNHQ though - benefit of the doubt and all that.

Really poor form to leave it so long before any more replies from mnhq

this is truly not looking good.
I would also like to hear from @MNHQ as to whether this is already a fait accompli.
If so, its goodbye from me MN - I will await the answer ( do you think we will find out or will have to check ourselves - most likely ? )

Would prefer the NHS adopts this digitisation model in part rather than private companies compete/ undermine the NHS and cream off the easier/ younger patients

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/google-nhs-health-app-deepmind-artificial-intelligence-ai-privacy-streams-app-a8633316.html
Google takeover of NHS-linked health app DeepMind is 'totally unacceptable', privacy lawyer says

Google subsuming the artificial intelligence-powered Streams app represents a 'trust demolition'

MN you're not remotely interested in hearing the views of members who disagree with this unethical deal between yourselves and Babylon. And that cynical, patronising attitude adds insult to injury.

Deeply disappointed.

Other companies, when they join MN to post their PR, are deleted

I am concerned that this one is getting special treatment.

And it is not a company I wouid want anything to do with.

Isn’t it just that MNHQ said they would pass on the questions to Babylon? And Babylon are posting the responses direct rather than MNHQ c&p’ing

Well, exactly, special treatment.

If MNers were asked 'do you think the solutions to the GP crisis is to increase the rate of privatisation of GP services, and should be support this specific company which is active in that field?' does anyone really think 'hell, yes bring it on'?

Hi all,
Many thanks for your input. The reason we asked is because we thought there might be some strong views on this one. In general we steer organisations which are trying to change perceptions towards Mumsnet Rated as then it's really a case of getting honest feedback and if the feedback is good then we have grounds to do further promotional work, but we can see there are some people who have philosophical objections beyond how useful the product is and so we think best not to go ahead with this one. Thanks again for taking the time to give your views.

Thank you so much for coming on and replying .
I am so relieved that you have listened to everyone

Wow just read this thread. I signed up for GP at Hand earlier this year and it is an absolutely amazing service. My old gp practice was woeful and I have had such a good experience.

Disappointing that knee jerk mumsnet users have slagged it off based on twitter - but I guess it’s your loss!

Thanks so much for listening Justine

Thank you Justine for your response , though I totally sympathise with people whose working hours mean they can't get decent care.

Wow, impressive response MN, thank you.

I love mumsnet!

Thank you for listening!