“Racism” towards the Irish on here

[Giantbanger]

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

If I was in a demonstrating kind of mood, I would come up with a specifically worded post that I would copy and paste onto every active thread on MN until such time as HQ responds.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this. Off what @IStandWithPosie said

It’s clear that mumsnet moderate the low level insidious negativity and outright racism towards the Irish in a very different way to how they moderate trans issues.

Suppose what was being either overtly said or implied about the Irish was being done about transgender people. It would be deleted. Yet race - which the equality act defines to include ethnicity - is an equal protected characteristic. No one characteristic is considered greater or lesser under the act. All are what. Therefore, in not moderating all characteristics with the same level of vigour, mumsnet are being discriminatory under the equality act.

My test is going to be - if this was said about trans, how long would it take to delete. Would the person get 3 strikes.

So. As an example. Aitch vs Haitch. Only those stupid people say that. But haitch is an acceptable pronunciation in the trans community. No it’s not you’re wrong. It’s just plain wrong. No but in the trans community we say haitch. And on and on. It would go and the mods would make a clear statement.

Same with names.

Same with the attitude towards some of out culture.

And I’m going to stick my neck out here. In the context of Ireland. Beyond the pale was offensive. I know the phrase has other meanings elsewhere but in the Irish context it was used for the bit of Ireland that was civilised and nice and the ill educated savages lived outside it. The educated better class of people loved inside the Pale and the peasants outside. Given that, mnhq, could you please remove that phrase from your talk guidelines.

giantbanger strong move there!

I self-identify as from Connacht, @MNHQ, (outside The Pale FYI) I guess you’d better delete all my posts!

CraicMammy I really don’t want to cause a shit storm but this is mulling in my head and it just seems wrong to me that one protected characteristic is treated so differently by mnhq. It doesn’t say in the equality act that there is an kind of hierarchy of protected characteristics.

And I personally find the phrase beyond the pale really offensive. It’s saying I’m an ill educated savage, in the Irish context. And as such is offensive to those of Irish ethnicity.

It’s use cannot be justified.

An example of English privilege?

I quote the Talk Guidelines below, let’s all enjoy the delicious irony...

“It's not our policy to delete swearwords (we're all adults, after all) but we do draw the line at obscenity, racist, ageist, disablist, homophobic or transphobic language, and wording that is truly beyond the pale.”

Their statement about not using racist language actually uses racist language.

Can’t they see that?

I have reported myself as beyond the pale.

Here’s what I’ve said:

^Your talk guidelines state that you will delete posts which are “beyond the pale”.

My surname is [~~~~~], derived from the Gaelic ‘of [~~~~] ’ an area of Ireland beyond The Pale.

I find the use of ‘beyond the pale’ in your talk guidelines hugely offensive. It is an outdated phrase, which is racist at its heart, and tells me I am not welcome on Mumsnet.^

My first name is Gaelic.

Guess I’m Beyond the Pale too.

I really didn’t expect to be having an existential crisis on Mumsnet when I woke this morning!

I have a Mc surname. I’m doubly beyond the pale i guess. I’m a total outsider I’ll never be let in. Never be welcome here.

They’ll have to change the name of ‘Craicnet’ to ‘within The Pale net’.

I’m really dispirited and tired this morning. Drained. I can’t really understand why it’s tsking so long to get some kind of answer and dialogue. It feels minimising of our concerns.

I’ve reported again to see if we can get any answer. But I have to be honest I’m not very hopeful.

I started this thread on Tuesday morning. We haven’t really had a decent answer and it’s clearly not a priority. It’s friday. We haven’t had an answer.

The fury is rising.

I am begining to think that I can't use MN anymore. Everyone falls overthemselves to be PC about everyone else, but the Irish don't count? AS USUAL

This could go mental on the Twittersphere. If I do this I will have to let go of MN though.......

I’m totally scunnered to be honest. I’m hanging on to see the answer and I’m keeping bumping and reporting but it’s just getting to the rude stage now that we haven’t had even any kind of decent engagement on this.

Bump☘️

This is what Wikipedia says

"The Pale, a demarcation line in Ireland while under English dominion; a usage associated with the phrase "beyond the pale", meaning unacceptable behaviour."

I don’t think we are worth enough money to MNHQ, nor are we enough of a risk of outrage in the media. We are a small country, with a smaller population than the West Midlands. As such we are fair game.

MN don't give a shit how offended us Irish users get, that much is obvious. They're probably incredulous we're making a fuss in the first place and are trying to find the best way to minimise and gloss over this whole thing.

I'm gobsmacked about that wording in their guidelines, I had no idea people still used beyond the pale as a serious term and not just taking the piss poorly.

They’ve definitely tried to gloss over. The answer here from Michael is a non answer.

And there’s yet another thread this morning where it’s subtle but there. I’ve reported but I’m so disheartened.

They’ve not even acknowledged my self-report.

You can’t be deleted if you don’t exist I guess...

I’ve had nothing to my reports either.

I don’t understand what we have to do to be heard.

This is awful that you have been left without answers from MNHQ. Maybe you do need to take a leaf out of the trans activists playbook and get it all over Twitter. After all that’s how they got MN to follow their demands