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Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues II

7 replies

PermissionToSpeakSir · 13/06/2018 22:54

Follow on from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3276551-Mumsnet-moderation-of-trans-rights-and-gender-critical-issues?pg=40&order=

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MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 14/06/2018 11:38

Morning everyone. Just to let you know, we're going to gradually get going with moderating according to the new guidelines today. We're not going to be too heavy-handed while everyone gets used to things, and we'll be letting people know if they've been deleted, so please don't worry that you'll be accidentally suspended.

We also thought it might be useful to clarify our thinking about general terms for trans people. Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex.

Just to unpack that a bit: it's really important to us that Mumsnet is not unwelcoming to any group. If the favoured term for trans people on MN centres on natal sex, when what trans people actually have in common their unhappiness with the same, we think they're bound to feel unwelcome.

If we thought it was difficult to express a gender critical position without these generic terms, we might hesitate - but honestly, we don't think it is.

As ever, there is room for mods to exercise their individual judgment, so they might occasionally decide that a particular instance isn't problematic. We'd much prefer it though, if you found ways to refer to trans people as a group which don't refer to natal sex, and as we move forward with moderating according to the new guidelines, we're likely to delete terms which do.

Thanks all

MNHQ

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 14/06/2018 11:42

@MarshaBradyo

But are you saying that transwoman is ok?

That's right Marsha.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 14/06/2018 11:47

@Maryz

So are you saying, Kate, that we are not allowed to refer to transpeople's natal sex at all.

No, just that the general term for trans people can't hang on their natal sex.

If you need to refer to the natal sex of an individual to clearly express a point, we'd likely allow it. It's probably not okay to refer to the natal sex of an individual on principle rather than in pursuit of a specific point. If the natal sex of an individual is aggressively repeated over and over, we'd likely take the view that had progressed beyond a discussion of facts/biology and towards a personal attack.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 14/06/2018 11:52

@AllyMcBeagle

Is 'transwomen (and by transwomen I mean people who are biologically male)' OK?
Yes - but if you added that bracket regularly we'd probably think you were trying to game it, and delete.
MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 14/06/2018 12:26

@AllyMcBeagle

So you can say it a bit but not too much. How much? How many times. Do tell.

I would like some clarity on this too please. Can I use it on my first reference to TWs in each post? Or can I use it once per thread? Do I have to check whether anyone else in the thread has used it?

I know this will sound like I am trying to be annoying but I have used these kinds of clarifications in the past - as some say, it helps cut down confusion with newbies and I have generally used 'transwoman' instead of the now banned term beginning with 'T' - but I was never worried before that my attempts to express myself clearly could lead to deletions/banning.

Ally please don't worry that you will be summarily banned. If you're clarifying in good faith that will be fine, and we'd always let you know about deletions and have a discussion with you before we suspended.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 14/06/2018 16:00

Hi all

It looks as though some people haven't seen our posts earlier, and may have the wrong end of the stick. To reassure you, we've been discussing the collective nouns that posters use to describe trans people as a group; we're not preventing anyone from asserting that transwomen are born male, or expressing a gender critical position.

We do, though, think it's right to be civil when we refer to other people. Trans people find their bio sex distressing on some level - so let's not have a collective expression for them which insistently defines them by their bio sex.

Look, we honestly do know that words are important here; but this is a complex issue, and it's probable that everyone will have to live with some contradictions and compromises in order for a dialogue to take place.

Thanks
MNHQ

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 15/06/2018 11:05

Hi all

We're going to start applying the new guidelines across all threads today. We'll be letting people know if they've been deleted, so please don't worry that you'll be accidentally suspended.

Please don't do 'test posts' - the mods' decisions will always depend on context so these won't prove much I'm afraid. For similar reasons, our moderation of this thread won't be representative of our new approach, since it's a meta discussion of the guidelines themselves.

We've noticed quite a few misconceptions already, so it's best not to rely on other posters' assessment of our stance, but to look again at our statement and clarifications, which start here. We've posted our position on group terms here.

Thanks all.

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