Is there a DV policy?

[Battleax]

Latest example of everyone going a bit potty;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3139165-My-husband-just-strangled-me-in-front-of-our-kids?pg=1&order=

I know MNHQ have posted on the thread, but there are still posts standing that say "He will definitely kill you" and "He will absolutely kill you". Plus a general air of shouty hysteria.

It's not helpful in a RL domestic violence situation to have people getting over excited like that.

Hopefully OP is long gone and engaging with RL services but I've noticed it's a bit of an escalating trend lately, and it's frankly a bit crap.

Click link hopefully;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3139165-My-husband-just-strangled-me-in-front-of-our-kids?pg=1&order=

Hi Battleax,

Thanks for raising this. As you know, we only see threads when they're reported to us - and in fact we don't often get reports that posters are being advised to take DV more seriously than they should.

We do appreciate, though, that this is a very sensitive area, so we remind people that other posters mightn't be qualified to offer 'official' advice at the top of relationship threads. We also direct them to our domestic violence web guide for useful links to real life support (and sometimes, we'll jump on to post the links ourselves).

As with other topics, we generally find that other Mumsnetters are very quick to chip in where they think OP is being poorly advised - but please, if you feel any individual posts cross the line, do report them to us using the report button. We're always very happy to take a look.

Thanks

MNHQ

and in fact we don't often get reports that posters are being advised to take DV more seriously than they should.

No that's NOT it.

Being told you're definitely going to be murdered, isn't good advice from someone "taking DV seriously".

I'll have to come back later when I have time to go through it.

That's actually pretty flippant of you @KateMumsnet and you've completely missed the point.

On the off chance there's any genuine interest at MNHQ about what is best practice in terms of not scaring the living shit out of already terrified women who disclose DV;

www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-someone-you-care-about-2/

I know it's not the same context, but really poor, alienating, inaccurate dramatics is becoming the standard response on the boards.

It's an issue in the same way handling suicidal posters is an issue. But like I say, I'm rushing just now.

Sorry you found it flippant - it certainly wasn't intended to be. Please do come back if you have suggestions for how MNHQ should deal with situations like this - we'd be very happy to consider them.

Battleax I know exactly what you mean and I have noticed a similar trend recently.

I suppose it is just a part of the site getting larger and moving faster. But time was that the DV related advice on here was fantastic - a mix of serious and supportive, friendly and encouraging and coaxing. There was a generally outstanding understanding of DV and it was treated sensitively. Posters would sit up all night to talk through a woman's distress - I've done it myself from both ends, as I learned from the wealth of experience here and left my own situation. And I think you're absolutely right that in the past it was common for poor advice to be drowned out by the reasoned majority but the problem is that this is not a majority any more.

There have always, unfortunately, been these extremely distressing posts on occasion where a poster has recently been victim of serious violence, and they do attract a much more shocked response - which is fair because it is shocking! But the difference seems to be that lately there is a trend for respondents to either post and run - add the shocked/judgemental comment and never come back which makes it difficult for posters who are actually trying to support the OP over a sustained period to get their comments seen. Or the other trend I'm much less a fan of is posters who just keep posting the same, can I say goady? responses as though they expect the OP to simply have a change of heart immediately and go right then, I'll leave, I've obviously got this all wrong - it doesn't work like that and when you're working with DV victims it is really unhelpful to keep hounding them for results as though they are a character in a soap opera you want an update for!

I don't know how a MN policy could actually address this issue though. Perhaps a topic for a thread on Relationships, and if any of us old-timers have any suggestions we could come back and share them? You can't, unfortunately, stop people from using others' distress and hardship as entertainment, and it would be difficult to know where to draw the line - because sometimes such "encouragement" is well-meaning but misinformed, whereas sometimes it seems almost vampirish.

I do wonder if restarting the old longer-running threads about EA support would be of any use? I used to find them quite useful to refer posters to who did not feel ready to address their own situation and perhaps felt a bit attacked on individual threads. Perhaps a few of us could volunteer to keep those threads going?

YY to all of that Bertie.

I meant to come back when there were no distractions at all, to think this through but, off the cuff;

I think dramatics need to be deleted as policy.

"You're going to die" (as opposed to "you're at high risk of fatal attack...") could certainly be deleted as policy.

And, yes, the first mention of DV and everyone is screaming "leave now, never go back l, won't you think of the children, wah, wah, wah".

To a woman who has just been attacked.

It's unseemly, its rubbernecking, it's unhelpful, it's not in an assault victim's best interest and it's just too much to be yelling at someone in shock.

Battleax I share your concerns - it's hard enough for those suffering EA/DV to reach out for help as it is. I worry that posters have left threads and stayed in dangerous situations because they are already vulnerable and then get a hammering on a site they thought they would be safe on.

The thread you've referenced is particularly awful. I try to be charitable and assume those posting 'he will kill' are lucky enough to have never experienced abuse, but it's getting hard to keep myself in check.

I don't engage them in a discussion because I don't want to derail the thread, but as a lot of EA/DV threads pop up at night, the Nightwatch need their modding remit expanded urgently.

I thought the same thing, Battleax.

Any response MNHQ?

I'm relieved I'm not the only one who can see it.

Hi all, and thanks for all your thoughts - I'm clear now about what the problem is and can completely see your positions. I think the best thing is if we give it some serious thought here and come back to you in a couple of weeks or so. We've found over time that there are often knock-ons when we make changes and in such a serious area I think we'd feel remiss if we didn't give ourselves time to think them through. We'll also get back in touch with our friends at Refuge and Women's Aid for their thoughts.

Thanks again for your input - I'll come back to this thread to update.

Thank you very much @KateMumsnet.

Here's another disgraceful thread. Slightly different issue from "you're going to definitely die". This one is "She's stupid not to leave straight away."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3142290-Footballer-Jon-Flanaghan-threw-his-girlfriend-against-a-wall-and-kicked-her-while-she-was-on-the-ground?watched=1&msgid=74887488#74887488

Yep..I've noticed this as well. Normally, the first post immediately after the op says. Police . NOW. ...and subsequent posters jump on this trend. It's never easy to get police involved, and never just as easy as LEAVE. NOW. I've been in a nasty DV situation which resulted in a restraining order. It was NOT that easy to "LEAVE. NOW" as some posters seem to think. For a start, it was MY house !!!!

Exactly.

Can you imagine someone posting about an alcohol addiction and being screamed at to "STOP drinking NOW!" "Pour it away NOW OP. You're definitely going to die!!!!"

Or even someone posting about being mugged being screamed at?

I think Berties right. She and some old timers need a corner somewhere to speak sense.

The thing is, as well, is that this advice isn't always helpful. In my case, police were called, he was arrested, and out of the house. Fine. But he got bailed the next day...and came back. I logged every single incident with the police afterwards, and although he was still on bail, they did nothing. I was advised to "go and stay with friends". Yes..because that's helpful isn't it

What advice would have helped you in that situation, whywont?

I agree with all the posters on this thread. Often the "advice" on threads about DV is unhelpful, bordering on abusive. I'm glad MNHQ is going to take advice from Refuge and WA. Would an Abusive Relationships forum, with a big fat sticky at the top be helpful?

No, I don't think so, because posters don't usually want to think of themselves as being in an abusive relationship.

To be honest morris I don't know. But I think, if I had been on mumsnet at the time, posted, and got told "if you don't LEAVE NOW, he's going to kill you" I would have absolutely fallen apart, more than I already was doing. I wish I knew what the 'right' advice was, but I know that some of the comments on the above link weren't it

I experienced this many years ago, under a different name (and using a completely different account and email address).

I asked for help from mners because my husband had just hit me in front of the children, and I had called the police. I was told to leave IMMEDIATELY, and warned about all sorts of dire consequences if I didn't. It frightened the life out of me.

Advising me to leave in the middle of the night and go to a hotel wasn't helpful. I had no money. A refuge would have been dreadful, and so stressful for the children. My eldest had special needs which meant I needed to stay in my house (eventually I got an occupation order, and I'm still there 3 years later). There were no friends or family members I could stay with that night.

I got so busy telling everybody on mumsnet to calm down, that I almost started minimising the situation. They were telling me I was seriously physically unsafe that night, and I knew I wasn't - I knew that ex-dh had burned himself out with that single act of violence, and that I had time to make a decent escape plan. I nearly failed to recognise the actual risks - which were increasing emotional abuse for the children, threats of suicide and all sorts of other weirdness.

I've learned a lot about domestic abuse since that time. Being strangled is a risk factor. Threats to kill are a risk factor! (I saw a thread today where an op disclosed threats to kill, and some posters were advising her simply to change locks and throw his stuff out, without making it clear that a police record of his abuse would help to protect her and the children in the long run).

Maybe I'm not being very coherent, but this is a subject dear to my heart. I've seen (and experienced) some fantastic support on mn, and some very sensible advice, but have also seen some quite hysterical posts which aren't helpful. A woman who is on the process of realising that her partners behaviour isn't acceptable is not always ready to take immediate action, and real life people with some training (women's aid, ncdv etc) are probably much better placed to help her anyway.

You express it very clearly tin 💐

In my experience, a poster in those shoes isn't posting for advice unless it's advice specifically asked for, like where they would stand legally on certain things, for example.
What they really want, is SUPPORT. What they need, is to have an outlet. Most of the time, it is impossible or unthinkable, to actually tell someone in real life for fear of being judged, told what to do, not believed, provoking an angry response when well-meaning but unhelpful advice isn't taken straightaway.
So you come here and get what? All of the above. I wouldn't do it. I've been put off.