Word of advice to MNHQ

[Hahahahaha123]

The next time you send an email about a poster to that poster by mistake. Probably best not to refer to your users as 'these people'

@MaudGonneMad

Sorry can you be more specific? Genuinely confused about the nasty tone?

Justine, if you genuinely want to find out what's gone wrong, I suggest you listen to the many, many posters of long standing who are stating over and over again that the communication from MNHQ has gone downhill in the last 18 months or so. Tetchy, curt, abrupt. I haven't been on the receiving end of it, so I don't have an example to pull out of my hat, but it's a pretty widespread impression. Problem is, I'm not sure you do want to listen.

Yes of course happy to look at this but need examples - you said a sneery tone had been used by HQ on this thread - which means the posts by me (don't think RebeccaMN's were sneery) - and I wondered which posts you were thinking of because not my intention to be sneery?

Trolls are everywhere and I agree with the poster who said you go in assuming they are trolls. While it is not obvious, I would bet good money that one of the posts in active is a troll. One that has been around for a while. I no longer report because you literally get fuck all and the thread stays up, with various people saying they dont care if its a troll its fun. The problem with that is trolling is like a drug, you get a hit from it, then the troll starts on more serious subjects and that draws in more vulnerable people.

Also you report and you start to doubt yourself, having found out I wasn't the only person to report, straight off the bat the cancer threads was an eye opener.

Yes the Reddit might not be nice, but to have a good 800 people all descend over there and not all seem to be PBP just people who are fed up of being taken for idiots.

You just equated being a PBP on a parenting website with being a criminal

That' s despicable, it truly is.

Justine, if you genuinely want to find out what's gone wrong, I suggest you listen to the many, many posters of long standing who are stating over and over again that the communication from MNHQ has gone downhill in the last 18 months or so. Tetchy, curt, abrupt. I haven't been on the receiving end of it, so I don't have an example to pull out of my hat, but it's a pretty widespread impression. Problem is, I'm not sure you do want to listen

I think that's a really good post and sums up it up well.

Did you see my post about the sciatica thread?

Some suggestions:

Make it clearer that MNHQ can and will read PMs if they deem it necessary.

Require email verifications when creating an account - this will help to ensure that when MNHQ sends a user an email, they receive. (And ensure that if a user is banned /suspended they receive an email)

Require the user to create a unique name and then don't allow them to change it. No name changing would help with a lot of issues.

Stop posting links to threads on social media - instead post links to all of the other services you offer, or stats (5 million mums use our pregnancy boards each month. That sort of thing) . Click bait stuff.just attracts trolls and spammers and makes the site look tacky.

Be really shit hot on not allowing troll hunting. Equally you need to improve your modding - either high more mods, or streamline and automate your processes. Maybe the time for "light touch" moderation is over?

Today 13:14 Saucery

You just equated being a PBP on a parenting website with being a criminal shock

That' s despicable, it truly is.

Wow!

Calling longstanding posters criminals is a prime example of the 'tone' mentioned on here.
With the OP banned for good this time and you are taking cheap shots like that. Wow.

@TheNiffler

I believe we're talking about a pbp (although i know that's disputed on reddit wink)

Very disingenuous.

Anyone else feel they're being Mansplained at?

Well mansplaining is a new criticism I must say! As said, we believe the OP of this thread has been banned previously for ignoring rules on troll-hunting and returned under a pseudonym to do the same. I guess by disingenuous you're saying I'm lying and there's not much I can do to convince you as I'm not going to reveal private user information, even of a PBP.

Unbelievable Saucery

I can see where the mods get their lack of professionalism from. I'll await my "We feel Mumsnet may not be workingfor you" email.

Even the ones who've flouted the rules persistently - so much so they've ended up being banned? I'm sorry but I think you're being unrealistic. It's like asking Boots to respect shoplifters because they're regular customers...

I don't really think illegal activity is comparable to being a pain in whatever way said banned posters have done. Perhaps it is unrealistic of me to expect users of a site to be treated equally, I just can't see the incident that's sparked this thread as anything other than unprofessional. I totally appreciate you wanting to support your staff, I just don't think it does the site (which is a business, after all) any favours saying "yeah it was a mistake but these posters are really annoying".

If it's a useful service, why shouldn't it be a business
Im not saying MN shouldnt make a profit, but lets be clear about whats going on here, MN is a platform, the service is provided by the users to the users. By far the greater part of the value of MN (as a community whose attention can be sold to advertisers) is provided by the users for free.

We do nearly all the work for free, MN makes a profit

I'm not going to reveal private information, even of a PBP

But you'll happily say they are the same as a shoplifter.

Please don't bother, Justine, I know the poster off board, I'm happy that she says she's not a pbp, and I know she's been a constantly useful contributor over many years.

I think you're digging yourself a big hole now, and its probably time to go to that other appointment before it gets worse.

Disenchanted posters who don't accept the site rules and constantly slag the site and moderators off are less valuable.

I'm interested to know what you mean by that justine, in particular what you mean by 'slagging'

If a poster has received an email with comments mentioned at the start of the thread, is it slagging MN than actually highlighting it and saying they aren't happy?
Would it be less of a slagging if they had contacted MNHQ first rather than putting it in here for all to see?
It's making me quite uncomfortable.

Plus, In my work, comments such as the ones I have seen on this thread (e.g. The OP who started the thread is saying she wasn't registered at the time she received the email...), would have immediately started an investigation on the issue.
So looking if the email had been send (even by error), was said poster registered, what was the history etc...
NOT A mere 'well it seems they have been banned before so we'll just throw them out' but a real investigation as to why they were banned in the first place.
Because there have been far too many instances recently where posters have been banned unnecessarily.
And this is from far away.

So my guess is that you have a real issue there and that recent one (with the OP) is only one of many.

It's hard to meet consistent anger and aggression without the occasional retort...

The comment about 'disenchanted posters slagging us off'

Not to mention your most recent one likening said 'disenchanted posters' to shoplifters. Really, was that a suitable analogy? Or designed to further inflame?

All in all, it adds up to a not terribly pleasant tone.

And of course all of this is undoubtedly inflected by the recent cluster-fuck which led to the set-up of the Reddit page. A lot of MNHQ posts on that issue were wildly inconsistent, problematic in tone, and either erroneous or mendacious. I suspect that's feeding into a lot of the current tensions. Were you planning to address that issue at all, Justine?

Wonder if that is libellous? Might be worth the OP investigating that.

Jesus Christ! This is beyond the pale, it really is.

@JustineMumsnet instead of being so unbearably dismissive, why not just be honest?

The trolls, the penis beaker type threads, the Daily Mail nabbing of articles...you don't have a problem with them. Your user numbers are up hence your revenue is up, and that's what you care about.

And that makes total sense because you're running a business. If I were in charge, I'd want that tasty bottom line, too.

I would ask my bots to tone down the general arseholeyness but I wouldn't change what was working for my profit margin.

However, pretending it's anything else is disingenuous. And that's what's causing upset, outrage, and confusion.

Now, you might see your critics as criminals. Nobody can reason with you or get through to you, as is obvious from this thread.

But, it's just insane that you keep pretending otherwise!

Even the ones who've flouted the rules persistently - so much so they've ended up being banned? I'm sorry but I think you're being unrealistic. It's like asking Boots to respect shoplifters because they're regular customers...

The problem is that we are increasingly hearing of long term MNers who don't know why they've been banned, or genuinely believe they were banned for something non-bannable (like reporting) or for a seemingly minor one-off infraction.

When recognisable, longstanding MNers of known reasonableness say that that's happening it has some credibility.

But we're always told not to worry; That there's a PROCESS for challenging disputed bans; That emails will be answered, explanations given and banning decisions revisited.

But now it seems as though maybe that DOESN'T happen (or doesn't always happen), which is disquieting to the membership.

IS there a process or isn't there?

Can everyone safely feel like members of a community here and be confident that we'll never be unceremoniously booted without recourse? Or not?

Booting without recourse is one thing. A bit annoying maybe.
Being called a thief by the site owner is quite another.

@TheNiffler

Please don't bother, Justine, I know the poster off board, I'm happy that she says she's not a pbp, and I know she's been a constantly useful contributor over many years.

I think you're digging yourself a big hole now, and its probably time to go to that other appointment before it gets worse.

Yes I'm off for now because this has got a bit too sureal and I do need to be somewhere else (about 40 mins ago). Will come back later.

Arghhhhhh,I want to know about the sciatica thread,don't go!!!!

It's like asking Boots to respect shoplifters because they're regular customers
an interesting and illuminating analogy, this shines a light on the way that community members are regarded by MNHQ, low life criminal scum

mind you low life criminal scum can be very lucrative if they will gather in one place so that you can sell them to your advertisers

As said by a pp, MNHQ are really evoking Gerald Ratner here

Wow
Just....wow

Surreal? Only when you called Site members criminals. That's when it tipped over into did I really just read that? territory.