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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

460 replies

Ghostofasmile · 03/11/2016 13:09

MNHQ themselves have displayed ignorance (at best) over the last few months and prejudice / discrimination at worst when dealing with certain situations.
For example Justine, the sites owner herself over the last few days has made some very ignorant and damaging comments about diabetes.
We have seen the same with many times with Racism too as well as low level disablism.

Unless you are white, middle class and able bodied HQ isn't a nice place to be.

Post here if you would like this to take place. HQ need training and they need it fast.

OP posts:
Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 13:46

people get ratty when they're told by other posters to shut up and sit down.

Even worse when those others are the sites staff.

No one is making you be here

No one is making us be here, but MNHQ shouts very loudly and advertises it's self as a site where we may get support, that is appealing.
Mumsnet as a sites invites disabled parents in, they tout loudly about the this is my child campaign.... they claim to be a support site for disabled parents.... then push us out of every other part of the website.

OP posts:
Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 13:50

They leave up posts which have been reported by many people and force us to educate the poster when we are the target of that posts hate...

HOW IS THAT FAIR!

HOW IS THAT FUCKING FAIR!

OP posts:
DixieNormas · 04/11/2016 13:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 13:53

Would you expect a target of any other hate crime to educate the person doing the hate?

Would you expect a rape victim to educate a rapist?

We are whinging because each time this happens it hurts us. We get picked apart after being invited to the site, then we are expected to stay and educate arrogant posters who make the comments.... sometime repeatedly make the comments.

OP posts:
Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 13:57

IF you had a child with Autism, and everyday you come to this site, which is supposed to provide support, and read things like:

"The fact is ASD is well over diagnosed it's just horrible children. most of the time anyway"

And when you report it you get told outright that YOU have to educate the user on the matter.

OP posts:
Manumission · 04/11/2016 13:57

If you had a child with asd/adhd would you like to read that?

I think part of the problem is that that is big leap of imagination for some people.

I couldn't have imagined being the parent of a child with autism and everything that entails. Until I was. (Of course, I hope I had some compassion and imagination.)

EdmundCleverClogs · 04/11/2016 13:58

I never understand the 'if you don't like it, fuck off' brigade. It's a very aggressive way of saying 'people who don't agree with me should shut up, only my opinion matters'. Why is it so awful standing up for something you believe in, especially when it's trying to break down ignorance and misinformation?

It isn't about being right, or telling the 'high ups' what to do, it's about finding a compromise and making sure that this site continues to support people from all backgrounds, not making certain groups feel alienated and unwelcomed.

Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 13:58

Wouldn't you whinge?

Wouldn't you get to a point where you are so shattered that you plead with MNHQ to change the way they do things?

Would you like them to show that they are supportive to you and not just playing lip service to things that give them publicity.

THIS IS HOW WE FEEL.

OP posts:
00100001 · 04/11/2016 14:01

Why don't you go and start your own parenting forum OP?

Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 14:01

I think part of the problem is that that is big leap of imagination for some people.

Okay fair enough.
I will change ASD to the word women.

coming to this site which is advertised as being supportive of women and their issue only to read posts everyday about how women are criminal, Are not really people and are just out to get benefits.

And reporting such posts get a response of "we will leave it up and let you educate."
Bearing in mind the site claims to support women.

OP posts:
00100001 · 04/11/2016 14:02

Then you can run it however you like.

Then you can then listen to the posters complain about how you run it.

Posters that have zero experience or knowledge of running an international web forum. Posters who don't pay for the service. Posters who are welcome to to a bazillion other websites if yours doens't quite suit them.

Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 14:03

Why don't you go and start your own parenting forum OP?

I don't want to start my own parenting forum. I'd like to try and suggest fixes for this one to make it supportive of those it claims to support.

OP posts:
DixieNormas · 04/11/2016 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Manumission · 04/11/2016 14:08

Okay fair enough.
I will change ASD to the word women.

This is it.

Disability awareness is about 20 years behind Racial equality which is itself at least 20 years behind Feminism.

NerrSnerr · 04/11/2016 14:08

MNHQ are obviously trying to understand ( they have already said they are consulting a disability charity) and clearly don't have an agenda against people of certain minority groups. I can imagine they are worried about whatever they do because they know there are some people waiting to jump on their every move.

I wonder how many other threads took a similar time to be deleted today and yesterday, probably a few.

At the moment there are certain threads I won't post on because I know emotions are high and I don't want to read snarky comments on threads in site stuff about me when I have tried to help someone. Tell me if I say something you find offensive but I'd hate to be an OP who asks for genuine suppose to read 'ffs someone has posted a thread about xyz' somewhere else on the site.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 04/11/2016 14:09

MN is like a relationship. If you're finding it shattering, if it's hard work and no fun any more then step away. I would say that to anyone who was finding anything that was supposed to be enjoyable too much hard work or upsetting.

You say you want people to think, you want people to reconsider, you want people to be more understanding... but then you say it's not your job to educate. I don't understand that at all.

Manumission · 04/11/2016 14:09

Why don't you go and start your own parenting forum OP?

Oh binary do knock it off.

How do comments like that help in any way? They just inflame.

Manumission · 04/11/2016 14:11

MNHQ are obviously trying to understand ( they have already said they are consulting a disability charity) and clearly don't have an agenda against people of certain minority groups. I can imagine they are worried about whatever they do because they know there are some people waiting to jump on their every move.

Maybe the lag while they do that just happens to be coinciding with peak frustration?

BishopBrennansArse · 04/11/2016 14:12

Yes, because othering minority groups is the way forward!
When I first posted here I had two children, neither diagnosed with a disability, and despite being deaf didn't classify myself as disabled.

Now, over a decade later, I have three children who all have multiple complex needs and I am very physically disabled myself.

My worldview has shifted tremendously but because it is different it's not welcome. Why? I'm a parent, I have children. Despite my experience being different I've found it relevant in a number of areas. So why shouldn't I share that? Calls of 'sn brigade' despite AGREEING with an OP were made just because I mentioned disability in my post - I mean wt actual f???

I've made at least 3 friends in RL from here. People are saying I should leave all of that?

Ghostofasmile · 04/11/2016 14:17

You say you want people to think, you want people to reconsider, you want people to be more understanding... but then you say it's not your job to educate. I don't understand that at all.

It's just gets to a point where it feels very one sided...

I don't mind educating but when it's constantly left to the users to educate it gets beyond a joke... peopel genulingly asking and questioning is one thing, people claiming to have all the fucking facts and that they know we are stealing benefits and so on is another.

A little help from HQ at times is all we want. it shouldn't always be left up to us should it.

They are absolutely getting there, the new specific deletion messages, which lets users know they are coming across as disablist, are a big step. I've seen a couple of HQ staff post on threads trying to keep things in line, it's all good steps.

But not consistent for every staff member who trys to understand you get 2 who outright deny there is a problem, Who victim blame and post ignorant stuff themselves.
We get it from users, we don't need it from the MNHQ as well.

OP posts:
DixieNormas · 04/11/2016 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

00100001 · 04/11/2016 14:42

manu I just think it's very very easy to criticise when you arne't the person responsible/making the decisions.

OlennasWimple · 04/11/2016 14:45

I get that there is strong feeling about this issue, and I've reported posts along the lines of "SEN / ADHD / whatever" before, and been told that they are going to leave it to stand to help educate, which seems completely absurd to me Hmm

But the premise of the thread - to demand that MNHQ trot off to diversity training - is misplaced, I think. For one thing you don't know that they aren't already up to their eyeballs with diversity training (much of which is complete shite, BTW), for another it's not up to the users of the site to demand specific actions from the owners of the site. Yes, raise the issue (again); yes, ask them to improve understanding of the issues and develop a more flexible deletion policy; no, you can't demand that they do x, y and z.

Manumission · 04/11/2016 14:54

manu I just think it's very very easy to criticise when you arne't the person responsible/making the decisions.

Well of course it is. And of course making the decisions isn't easy.

But the whole 'go and start your own site'/'fuck off you don't like it'/'dereg if you're unhappy' narrative a) has been done to death, b) is OTT and c) isn't going to move this forward.

GingerIvy · 04/11/2016 15:19

I think it's frustration, really. People are getting tired of HQ saying they want to leave up some threads to educate, when there is obvious disablist language on it. I'd understand it if they said "okay, this is new, we're going to do this and focus on educating people for the next 3 months, then Bam! we start deleting." But it's not.

Six years ago, when I first was learning my son had disabilities, MNHQ was saying this. Six years on, it's still happening, so yeah, I feel it's kind of rubbish. Yes, I get that there are new people coming on all the time, but there will ALWAYS be new people coming on. At some point, HQ needs to step up and state that we're done educating in this regard. They don't educate for racism. They delete. Disablist language should be treated the same.

Perhaps on a second deletion, people should be automatically suspended for a week, you know, to give them a chance to educate themselves over whatever issue caused their posts to be deleted, be it racism, disablist language, or just being a dick (although I suspect that's hard to educate yourself out of Grin).

I don't really know what the solution is, however, my feeling is that those that deal with disabilities and that are getting frustrated over the disablist language are feeling that there's been no forward momentum from MNHQ in years to contain it at all. Perhaps it might be helpful if MNHQ took note of that and took some steps to rectify that, as quite frankly educating people isn't working very well, especially with new people coming in all the time, and lately it has been a bit of a free for all. I think MN is walking a thin line between freedom of speech and allowing hate speech on the site, as my understanding is that as it is their site, they are ultimately responsible for what stays on the site (otherwise why the kerfluffle over that child care book author Grin or the McCanns or Samaritan's Purse), and sadly, I feel that they often err on the side of allowing things to remain that cross the line in this particular subject when they would not do so in other subjects. And that is partly why so many are upset, IMO.

Or to put it more bluntly.... they are shit hot at jumping on posts that cross the line in certain things, but slack at the disablist stuff, leading some of us to think that it's a low priority and that they can't be bothered. If that's not the case, then IMO MNHQ needs to make that message clear.... not by talk but by actions.