MNHQ here: what do you think about manufacturers marketing wipes as 'flushable'?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We've been contacted by a major utilities company asking Mumsnet to throw its weight behind a campaign it's running on the marketing of 'flushable' wet wipes and 'moist' toilet tissue.

The organisation that's contacted us says that 80% of all sewer blockages are the result of sewer misuse, and that 70% of these blockages are the result of wet wipes. They want manufacturers to stop being able to label wipes as being 'flushable'.

They are going to write to the Advertising Standards Authority complaining that consumers are being misled by the packaging and claims on many of these products. They say consumers are encouraged to believe that these products break down harmlessly when flushed - whereas in truth, they don't break down after flushing and can end up causing blocks, leaks and flooding.

We know from previous conversations about tampons and sanpro that MNers tend to be stalwart defenders of the public sewage system, so we said we'd ask you whether this was a campaign you'd like us to swing behind.

As ever, it would be great to hear what you think.

Thanks
MNHQ

It sounds, for some people at least, as if there's also a question to be asked about whether they need to use them in the first place?

Definitely!

I was in a classroom a few years ago and the yr 6's had a science project on display with bottles of water with various "flushable" items. Food representing faeces, tissue, paper towel, baby wipes

I was shocked at what was marketed as or regularly flushed but is absolutely not suitable.

Yeah my drains clogged and the bloke who cleared them told me not to use flushable wipes anymore. (Turns out DP was puttint kitchen roll and all sorts down the bog )

Yep. I was suckered into this about 10 years ago when my casually flushed wipes erupted into my neighbors garden. Mortified.

Quick question: is kitchen roll as bad as wipes?

If it does not break up when soaked in water them yes it is just as bad.

Ick, definitely shouldn't be flushed or marketed as such.

We use wipes occasionally, but they aren't flushed, and normal practice here is to use washable cloth wipes.

Likewise kitchen roll... what's wrong with a good hot cloth?!

Some people have even ditched loo roll for washable 'family cloth' but I can't quite bring myself to do that, if I lived alone maybe but I don't think I could begin to convince hubby, or guests

Anyway, definitely shouldn't be marketed as flushable!

It's hard not to offer support to a campaign like this, and I do support it because of the importance of raising awareness of any issue which directly or impacts the environment.

However, Water Companies in the UK make huge profits and are not good at reinvesting their profits back into maintaining an adequate infrastructure, unless compelled to by Ofwat. Since privatisation in the 1980s they have kept stripping back on their operating costs to such an extent they did not have enough operatives draining cleaning, getting rid of fat build-up and de-ragging as they did in the past. All done to ensure shareholders benefit from increasing profits. They are now mainly now foreign-owned companies and pay little UK tax.

How about them funding their own campaign and using their collective clout with Ofwat to urge the Govt to put pressure on the Companies that produce these wipes? I do hope they are paying you MNHQ for your efforts on this issue?

For the record, I worked in the water industry for 20 years and more recently as a customer been on the receiving end of their poor customer service and lack of investment in our local sewage pumping station and main sewer which regularly causes sewage flooding on our property.

I have NCd for this (obviously) as it seems I am a lone voice on this thread.

Our family uses flushable wipes (but only thin ones), because, quite frankly, if you are only using dry paper to wipe yourself after a bowel movement, then you are not clean.

I think a far better campaign would be to improve the drainage system (not very likely!), or make wipes thinner so they are not as bulky (more likely) and can pass through the system more easily.

Those of you saying don't flush them - what exactly are you meant to do with them? I'm not going to have a bin in my toilet for poo-covered wipes!!!

OK, those with a sensitive disposition stop reading. I have worked in the water industry. It's quite an eye opener. I haven't had a tummy bug in years

It's not just about drainage, although that is important. Wipes can and do cause pipe blockages which are expensive to fix.

Waste water treatment takes the foul water in and discharges clean water ar the other end. There are lots of designs for a waste water treatment works. Essentially though they work by screening off the 'solids' and then cleaning up the foul water remaining.

Screens get blocked too. Which costs money. The resulting solids also need to be dealt with, which also costs money. If the solids are all organic matter (ie poo and paper) , there are ways to deal with it. Plastics further complicate the matter.

Sewage treatment is necessary and has to be paid for. I for one am glad we no longer dump it at sea and long sea outfalls (and their variations ) are regulated. I like clean beaches.

If we insist on flushing items clearly labelled nonflushable (eg tampons) we pay for that in out water bills. The water companies deal with the results of wipes in the sewage system daily. They say don't flush. We do, it costs money, that affects us through our bills.

A little personal responsibility goes along way. Yes nicecleambum that includes taking responsibility for your own shit.

Nicecleanbum, either don't use them and live with an unsterile bum, or yes have a bin for them. Plenty of countries don't allow toilet paper down the loo and provide bins for that.

I would support such a campaign. I've helped Thames21 clear ups & there are always loads of wipes on the foreshore. When there is heavy rainfall the sewerage system gets overloaded & waste gets washed into the Thames & then out to sea. Lovely.

Eastpoint those are storm outfalls. The sewage system takes all the water that flows down drains and the system has a capacity. Storm water just doesn't fit inside a sewage works, the volume and speed of flow is too great.

Another reason to think before you flush.

I don't flush baby wipes but I do you moist/flushable toilet paper/wipes and always flush them because I thought you were meant to! I wouldn't put them in the bathroom bin that's gross

They will flush but they don't break up like toilet tissue. I work for a drainage and plumbing company and we see problems like this every day. If you're interested, here is an article about this very issue.

People already flush stuff that they shouldn't (nappies and tampons for example) so it would really help if companies were clearer about what those toilet wipes actually do. The word flushable makes consumers believe that there will be no problem when in fact they can cause pretty major problems.

I already back this campaign in a professional capacity, but I would be quite happy with MN getting involved, too.

Clean, Thames Water suggests an alternative:

It has teamed up with Gloucestershire-based company Freshu, whose antibacterial gel can be squirted into ordinary loo paper to make it feel just like a wet wipe - but with none of the sewer-blocking dangers

I sympathise with you nicecleanbum and I like the clean feeling a wipe gives occasionally depends on the precise consistency of the poo in question whether I feel I need one sorry for TMI but a massive upgrade of the sewer system to deal with non-degraded solids isn't remotely realistic. Better to put pressure on the wipes manufacturers to create a wipe which is genuinely quickly degradable. The sewage companies have a definition SNAP for true flushability which the manufacturers don't accept and don't work to. Consumer power demanding wipes that conform to SNAP would be much more likely to succeed than government investing billions in taxes so that our bums can be sparkly fresh.

I was going to suggest similar to jassy for nicecleanbum (although I do think you are being too fastidious)
I was just going to suggest an initial good wipe with dry loo paper then dampen a folded wodge with water for a final wipe - or you could use a washable cloth for the final wipe - it wouldn't be really gross after a paper wipe - actually the same is true for wipes in the bin.

I just tried to find this Freshu stuff online but everywhere selling it is out of stock so I think the business may have gone bust.

I've found Angel Toilet Paper Gel instead and have ordered some to try. I shall report back for the benefit of nicecleanbum and others on whether it gets the job done.

Really support this campaign.

Why would it be gross to put adult wipes in the bin but not baby wipes?

I suppose with baby wipes, you wrap them in the nappy, which you seal with the tabs, and then maybe put it in a nappy sack.

Too gross to put your shitty wipes in the bin but backed up toilets and drains overflowing with your shit is ok?

That's an interesting view point.

Get a bit with a lid ffs.

Bin not bit

Fish watching (not literally! ) with interest.