Anti-Religious Trolling On Mumsnet

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I get that not everyone is religious and that some people are very anti-religious (some with good reasons).

But some MNetters are religious, others are simply curious. So how come so many threads are allowed to be derailed by anti-religious trolls? Today a thread about Good Friday was deleted because a troll came on. FFS, it's Easter! Threads about Islam are regularly derailed by Islamophobes. On a thread seeking information on Judaism in the Philosophy & Religion topic, a troll has posted LMFAO. Ok, serious question, why does the Jewish God make all men wear a funny beards? She continues venting for a few posts before eventually exiting the thread saying that she is on drugs because It's Easter, party time.

She is a MN regular, like most of the anti-religious trolls here. I have reported her posts but they still stand.

Trolls are not interested in knowing what other people think or believe. They have no desire to discuss the point of actual threads and rarely start threads of their own regarding their issues with religion or belief. They just derail threads in the hope of driving all talk of religion and different beliefs off MN. And they are succeeding.

Why are MNHQ allowing this to happen? Deleting threads instead of dealing with posters? Allowing blatant anti-religious trolling to derail threads that people may find supportive or informative? Is MN a religion free zone? Because if it is, that's ok. I just think that religious posters should be told. Then they can go elsewhere if they wish to discuss their beliefs.

Sorry, sloppy posting there. I meant that there are people who believe that if anyone says they are offended, it must be their own fault.

It's not about protection. It's about the differences between conversation, support and debate otoh and insults, derailments and the closing down of conversation on the other.

It's blatantly obvious when posters are trying to bully a thread to their will or close it down. And MN guidelines usually deal with it fairly well but there is an ongoing issue with religious threads that implies it's not working entirely all the time.

Of course the derailment of this thread makes it difficult to see how much of an issue it is because the discussion is partly been lost amidst a rehashing of yesterday's thread.

I think it would be a very sad day indeed if MNHQ decided to treat religious views any different to any other values and opinions expressed on here.(apart from any hate speech on the -isms, of course).

Someone talking the piss out of a religious belief is no different to someone taking the piss out of an overweight person (like myself) wearing leggings.

I feel OhFuck has had an unnecessary hard time on this thread. I too felt the 3pm threads were both a bit goady and trying to shove a religious agenda in our faces and rightly a number of posters took the piss, particularly because they were posted in chat. From reading the OP of one of the threads I understand that this was, of course, not her intention.

In my opinion the trouble with some religious people is that they do think it's OK to give atheists a dressing down about needing to respect their beliefs whilst at the same time not respecting our beliefs and wishes to not have theirs foisted upon us.

Christianity gets a particularly hard time, because you really cannot escape the unfortunate damage the influence and the power of the Church has throughout our society both in the present day and historically.

If you don't want religious or spiritual beliefs 'foisted' on you then don't trawl the religion and philosophy threads - simple as.

The mocking is almost always aimed at people who have a faith of some sort.

But this is on Site stuff Lottie

I was the OP of the second thread and as I explained I am not particularly devout. I started the second thread because the first was derailed and the reason given was that the title didn't make it clear it was about religion. My thread title made it clear it was about Good Friday and I do think it was asomeone valid a thread as any other.

If anything even vaguely connected with religion is condemned as goady it rather proves the point of the OP in this thread that religion is treated differently on MN from every other topics - at least by certain posters.

Yes it is but my understanding is that the OP is talking generally about regular derailing in the P&R board.

Certainly it was your right to post a thread like anyone else. And like any thread you cannot control what people say on it, unless they are explicitly breaking The MN's Rules.

People say all sorts of things on threads such as LTB over a minor disagreement. Just because you create a thread you cannot control the responses. 'Tis the nature of Internet forums.

IonaMN, do MNHQ believe that trolling and derailing of religious threads doesn't happen? All that happens is that religious posters and those interested in their beliefs are simply trying to "shut down debate" when they say it does?

Yes, but as I've said before on this thread numerous times, just because you're not breaking the rules does not mean that you're behaving decently or in the spirit of mumsnet.

If someone starts a thread and is looking for advice, NOT a debate, then it is the decent thing to start a thread about it inviting debate. To refuse to do so is deliberately rude. We all usually apologise for hijacking a thread which can happen inadvertently. This, OTOH is often deliberate.

In my opinion the trouble with some religious people is that they do think it's OK to give atheists a dressing down about needing to respect their beliefs whilst at the same time not respecting our beliefs and wishes to not have theirs foisted upon us

First I don't think anyone here is talking about atheists, per se. Secondly I personally would deal with my problems by first praying for guidance and I'm sure people of all faiths do the same, but I have never ever given that advice or seen anyone else give that advice, because nobody is trying foist their beliefs on anyone.

That was to Sliver Birch

Yes it is but my understanding is that the OP is talking generally about regular derailing in the P&R board

No I think that's just you Lottie

I'm not sure I get this angst about derailing any thread. As far as I know there are no specific rules about staying on topic with the original exact points the OP posts. Discussions progress and evolve, some of the best threads I've read on MN have gone far from the original post.

It would be interesting to know what others think about the etiquette of ownership of threads.

I agree Atenco.

No, I think I can guarantee that actually it's not just me. I've seen this going on for years on that board.

Nobody owns a thread, no. But why behave like a twat just for the hell of it and to stop people from having a discussion that they want to have?

Have you actually read the linked threads I used as examples?

Q: 'do believers actually hear the voice of God?' (OP wants to hear from believers)
A: 'no, of course not - if you hear God, you're psychotic'

Q: 'how do I help my religious dd?'

A ' stop indoctrinating her with nonsense'

It would be exactly the same as if I were to start a thread asking which formula you would recommend and someone said 'oh well you shouldn't be using formula in the first place'

Is it really that difficult to understand ??

It's not just Lottie, and not just Dione. It's very evident.

My perennial understanding is that derailing a thread with your own agenda is, at best, very rude indeed. If it's done very aggressively, then surely that's a breach of the rules. And it does close down the debate which the OP intended to start.

However, if things have changed, MNHQ need to tell us. I'm an atheist btw, so no actual Christian axe to grind.

I do think there is an unwritten etiquette for specific boards.

I wouldn't run into The Dog House generally and say I hate dogs, but I would comment if someone was moaning about a neighbour who was upset about the poster's dog crapping on their lawn.

In the same way if someone was asking for a suitable prayer for a specific occasion I wouldn't suggest that they were misguided but if they asked what to do when talking about their beliefs to a non- believing friend I would feel OK to comment.

This is an open forum therefore everyone's opinion is equally valid and permissible.

It's more like going on to a nice thread about baking and shouting: "Don't fucking do baking, you misguided twats! Are you stuck in the fifties, or what? Get a grip and do something meaningful!" Which is actually how I feel about baking. But I never say it.

The examples you cite are not derailing though are they SB? There are lots of threads on that board which invite debate but on others it's clear that there is an agenda from some to stop the OP from getting the advice they asked for.

But Lottie there are arses all over MN doing that sort of thing. Have you ever read the trans or feminism threads? Why do you feel threads about religion should be treated any differently?

On other threads such comments are either very obviously ignored or the posters taken to task by other posters or reported if they break the rules.

SilverBirchWithout, the examples you cite would of course be very useful contributions to a thread. But you are right, there are always arses. There is a thread where someone is asking how to stop drinking and some cruel bitch started writing about how life is boring without a drink, etc. etc. She did get deleted though.

I don't think it should be allowed on any topic, no. People should behave decently and as if they were talking to someone in RL as the MN guidelines state. I guess I am irritated by what goes on in the religion topic because every single time I've posted a thread on there (which isn't often) someone jumps on and tries to change the point of my thread with their 'oh let's not even discuss this nonsense' approach.

I have other problems with MN like people disagreeing automatically on AIBU because they find it entertaining to watch a fight unfold. The site has changed very much from when I joined in 2004. It's bigger and it is bound to I suppose. It's still a very useful pool of information as far as I'm concerned.

Nobody owns a thread, no. But why behave like a twat just for the hell of it and to stop people from having a discussion that they want to have?

But why cannot the people who have a different view not join in a discussion. I simply don't agree that on an open forum only certain people with specific views are permitted to join in a 'discussion'

Have you actually read the linked threads I used as examples?

Yes. I was horrified by your thread about your daughter, but not for the reasons you seem to be referring to

What? None of the threads I linked to were about my daughter. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I think that of course everyone should be able to join a discussion but they shouldn't just do so specifically to vandalise the discussion and to prevent the OP from getting the advice they were seeking. It has happened elsewhere too - on the SN board about a specific therapy for example.