Anti-Religious Trolling On Mumsnet

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I get that not everyone is religious and that some people are very anti-religious (some with good reasons).

But some MNetters are religious, others are simply curious. So how come so many threads are allowed to be derailed by anti-religious trolls? Today a thread about Good Friday was deleted because a troll came on. FFS, it's Easter! Threads about Islam are regularly derailed by Islamophobes. On a thread seeking information on Judaism in the Philosophy & Religion topic, a troll has posted LMFAO. Ok, serious question, why does the Jewish God make all men wear a funny beards? She continues venting for a few posts before eventually exiting the thread saying that she is on drugs because It's Easter, party time.

She is a MN regular, like most of the anti-religious trolls here. I have reported her posts but they still stand.

Trolls are not interested in knowing what other people think or believe. They have no desire to discuss the point of actual threads and rarely start threads of their own regarding their issues with religion or belief. They just derail threads in the hope of driving all talk of religion and different beliefs off MN. And they are succeeding.

Why are MNHQ allowing this to happen? Deleting threads instead of dealing with posters? Allowing blatant anti-religious trolling to derail threads that people may find supportive or informative? Is MN a religion free zone? Because if it is, that's ok. I just think that religious posters should be told. Then they can go elsewhere if they wish to discuss their beliefs.

[meditrina]

I think, in a diverse society, there is simply no place for the appalling rudeness seen here all too often.

[AuntieStella]

Whether you believe in one God, many or none, that's still a belief.

Absence of belief, nicking the best bits from several, or just awaiting proof/enlightenment is agnosticism.

I do not find it's the agnostics who are rude.

[GinIsIn]

I am an atheist, although I do try to have tolerance for all beliefs and faiths, and I do not agree with trolling in any way, shape or form.

I am not for one minute condoning trolling or disrespect, but I think VertigoNun has identified the reason her thread went a bit tits up correctly in that it was her choice of title, which simply said 'What are you doing at 3pm?'

From my perspective - I categorically do not believe in God. If I walk into a church for any reason - wedding or christening or whatever - I am entering a place of someone else's beliefs and will absolutely respect that. I cannot, however, tolerate people preaching at me in the street, ringing my doorbell at 7am at the weekend for an unsolicited chat about Jesus, or trying to shove leaflets about God in my face when I am trying to enter the tube station.

In that vein, I think the fact that some atheist MNers found themselves drawn into clicking on a religious thread surreptitiously just rubbed people up the wrong way and they acted a bit childishly.

There is a big difference between that and people seeking out boards in the Religion topic specifically to troll.

[Duckdeamon]

Posters being rude or ridiculing other posters or their beliefs is not OK, but is not "trolling" IMO. If people breach the MN guidelines their posts should be deleted etc. Otherwise free speech is fair enough.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

I'm with Meditrina - it's not about religion, it's about bad manners and flat-out rudeness.

There was a recent thread about giving up leather (started by a vegan) and one particular poster was adamantly defending her right to be a twat to people with different food choices to her. She denied any parallel with religious intolerance but it was there IMO.

I agree MN should delete posts rather than threads.

[PeggyBlomquist]

I'm an atheist and some of the comments are very tacky and rude. Having said that they are not trolling and there is just as much rudeness in a lot of other threads.

Saying ' is mumsnet a religion free zone' is just silly. It's just as easy to say is it a bottle feeding/let babies settle themselves/loving strip clubs/ Scottish referendum/exit the eu free zone'. All of those along with a million more are contentious issues that bring the same type of response.

[AuntieStella]

Religious expression is however covered by the Equalities Act 2010.

So it is not like a bun-fight topic. It's like ageism, sexism disablism and racism.

I'd agree that MN has (sadly) a mixed history on dealing with how people post about protected characteristics, but I hope they will strive to ensure postings comply with the Act.

[twelly]

I think that the way Christianity threads or comments are addressed by some is inflameitary - but allowed to remain. If the same comments are then made about other religions they are deleted. This approach is inconsistent, there does not seem to be a "phobia" for Christianity. I also think that the free speech card is mostly played when it applies to comments about Christianity.

[mercifulTehlu]

I'm an atheist and will happily pile in with some fairly anti-religious stuff on a thread that is intended to be of a debate-type nature. However, attacking people's beliefs uninvited on a thread which is not asking for pro- and anti-religious comments is just bad manners. I don't think it is usually trolling though - trolling doesn't just mean vociferous opinions that you don't agree with.
I must say that I don't find it at all surprising that people are allowed to get away with attacking Christianity more than other religions. This is largely a UK site, and therefore Christianity is the religion many of us have been brought up with (whether we liked it or not). We tend to know more about it than other religions, and our views against it are not likely to stem from cultural or racial prejudice, but rather from rejection of something which is to many atheists an unwelcome part of our own culture.

[VulcanWoman]

Again as I always put, if everyone ignores/blanks trolls and they don't get any reaction what so ever from other people, they'll soon get fed up, even this thread/reporting them/deleting threads builds up their sick twister status, blank them, just blank them.

[PunkrockerGirl]

I agree. It's just rude and disrespectful. I hate the way Christianity is seen as 'fair game' to throw insults at on here, in a way that is not tolerated when applied to other religions.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

I'm so glad you started this thread. I was shocked that the Good Friday thread had to be deleted. There are some real arseholes on here.

[MancombSeepgood]

I agree. Hatred and intolerance towards religious beliefs running rife is something that has been bothering me about MN for a while. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Northey]

I completely agree. The choice of language - sky pixie/imaginary friend/fairy story - is deliberately belittling.

I understand what you are saying mercifultehlu, about why people from a culturally Christian background feel more entitled or free to attack it. There was something funny and perceptive on the radio about just that point the other day which I will see if I can find.

If the Equalities Act is a guide here though, I don't think you are exempt from falling foul of it because you share the characteristic though (I mean you can still be guilty of discriminating against a woman because she is a woman and be a woman yourself).

[AugustaFinkNottle]

The trouble is that if MN start protecting one particular type of thread, where should they draw the line? People can be just as rude about people they disagree with politically, Mail readers etc. I think the rules on trolling and personal attacks are perfectly adequate, people should just report the objectionable posts.

[Northey]

Can't find it on iplayer, but it was John Bishop doing a gag about Christianity and then funnily but thoughtfully deconstructing why he didn't do it about Islam and how he felt about that.

[Toooldtobearsed]

I am agnostic, but really enjoy reading about various religions and beliefs, particularly on MN, simply because I can learn without feeling as though anyone is trying to convert me.
I am horrified by the disrespectful nasty comments by some posters. Why? I just do not understand why they do it. So you don't believe? Then just don't read the thread! I love robust debates and discussion, but can't really understand why these individual posts are allowed to stand.
It would not be tolerated on other subjects, so why here?

[SurferJet]

I agree - I've seen some shocking anti-religious posts ( usually about Christianity for some reason, which is strange given that they're one of the more Liberal religions )
I'm not sure if it's trolling -but it's certainly rude.

[DaphneWhitethigh]

I don't think it's as simple as "don't be rude about other people's beliefs" because there are some threads about the way that religion is imposed on third parties where I can understand the aggressive approach. I'm thinking about education and circumcision threads mostly, where a lot of people get understandably angry and I think their language should be allowed to reflect that.

On threads like the Good Friday thread however, which are solely about personal belief, I think it's appalling manners to go beyond a simple "I'm an atheist and don't believe in those things". I think MNHQ should come down like a tonne of bricks on posters who are being gratuitously rude in those circumstances.

[BertrandRussell]

Doesn't it depend a lot on what sort of thread it is? If it's a "prayer" thread then obviously any polite person would leave it to the people of faith. If it's a more generalized "discussion" then presumably everyone can join in, following the usual rules of civilized debate - people of faith can't expect any more or less "respect" than people who hold differing political views on a politics thread. If it's a thread about education, or any other aspect of Christian privilege then it seems to me that both sides give as good as they get and Christians, because they are the ones holding the privilege under discussion should expect to be challenged and pushed to defend their position.

I personally don't talk about sky fairies or imaginary friends or spaghetti monsters (although I may have been guilty of mentioning tea pots occasionally) because I don't think they move the debate on. And they are just as unimaginative and tedious as "You wouldn't say that about Muslims" "Christianity is fair game" remarks.

[BoGrainger]

I agree with Daphne.

For people not understanding Christianity getting it in the neck more than most on here I would say it's because it is forced on us on a daily basis in the form of school worship and school admissions. Therefore on boards such as Primary Ed opinions tend to get 'loud'.

The Good Friday thread was doomed from the start. It should have been in Philosophy and the first few posters didn't have a clue it was religion based. I didn't see how things turned out but agree it sounds outrageous.

[BertrandRussell]

And I only read some of the 3 O'Clock thread- so unless it got worse, I think it was rather odd that it was deleted. Most people, including many Christians, wouldn't have known what it was about, so, like many other threads, would have had a bit of fun with it. I was slightly amused by the fact that I was making hot cross buns while listening to the St Matthew Passion- much more "religious" activities than most of the religious people on the thread!

[hmcAsWas]

I reported those comments on the thread on Judaism as anti-Semitic. Mn didn't even bother to respond to me!

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

I post quite often on the philosophy/religion forum. In fact I posted on the thread mentioned in the OP.

I too feel unhappy about the tone of some of the comments made in that forum – it can all get a bit unpleasant. Both believers and non-believers can make cutting personal comments that I suspect they would never make face to face. And yes, atheists are clearly the worst offenders.

I don’t know what’s to be done. The forum has the potential to be a place where ideas can be considered thoughtfully and insights exchanged but I’m afraid debate all too often degenerates into an exercise in point scoring.

Some of the believers have posted that they would prefer the non-believers to go away so they can have discussions in peace. I think that would be regrettable though – a wide variety of viewpoints is likely to lead to a more vibrant and vital board. (As an atheist, I would say that though!)