Gender specifications on your Mumsnet account: update

[SarahMumsnet]

Morning folks,

Following on from last week’s thread about our asking you to sign up to Mumsnet as male or female, here’s where we’ve landed.

We’ve had a careful read of the thread, and done some more general reading around and investigation into how this is handled elsewhere, and we think the best way to proceed is to add the option “other” to the list of responses to the question of gender. Viz

Female
Male
Other (please specify) _

This is how lots of other sites navigate this, so we hope it’s not too controversial.

As ever when it comes to questions around gender, we’re aware that not everyone will agree, but this seems to us to be the most inclusive and sensible route to take.

Do let us know what you think.
MNHQ

Thanks Sarah
It does matter to some people wonky - clearly not everyone
We can all find ourselves in a minority at some point in our lives, or our friends and loved ones may do too

I understand that, juggling

As long as gender doesn't come at the expense of sex, then fine. I've no desire to limit how other people identify, as it has no relevance to me at all.

But I don't want to be compelled to 'identify' as something I am not, nor to I want to be grouped with people who are biologically the opposite sex in certain particular circumstances because they feel they 'identify' the same as I actually am.

When I am considering issues that affect primarily or exclusively biological females globally (FGM, sex discrimination, sexual violence issues, limiting education of girls globally, child brides, childbirth mortalities etc) identity doesn't even enter into it. Biological women suffer certain issues globally not because of their gender identity, but because of their biology.
Girls and women can't just identify their way out of misery around the world. Their biology determines the pathway of their lives. And the people that discriminate against girls and women aren't doing it because they think that women have a certain gender identity - they see their sex, and the discrimination happens on that basis.

So we need to be able to use the word sex when we mean biology.
For some of us, the push to differentiate by 'gender' clouds the issue because it simply isn't the most important thing to most women's lives.

Yet sex is vanishing as a question on forms from passport applications to driving licences to Mumsnet. And you can't protect a group of people who are oppressed by reason of their sex, if you aren't even acknowledging what their sex is.

Those for whom gender identity is very relevant can of course use it for themselves, so long as they don't impose it upon me too.

I have it! I have the solution!

Don't mention gender or sex.

Simply ask are you male /female/ other / prefer not to say.

That way people answering the question can interpret however they like, and nobody can possibly be offended obviously someone will, but we can but try

That'd be far too sensible itsallgoingtobefine...!

Over the last week or so I have discovered that:

1. BA insist you give them your gender (male/female)
2. The UK passport form insists you give your gender (again male/female)

And yes, it says gender.

Sarah, you're still not answering the question 'why not ask for sex, instead of gender?'. Can you do so please? Thanks.

Yes, like those two posts from Hairy and ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Plus those 4 options from IAGTBF were the ones I suggested!

Basically I'm up for enough choices to help everyone feel comfortable - and putting your users needs before those of your advertisers HQ!

Even "Sex" isn't accurate for appropriate targetting of ovulation calendars. Plenty of women couldn't give two shiny ones eg they're taking hormonal contraception, celibate, post-menopause, or simply not TTC or TTA and don't care.

Plus those 4 options from IAGTBF were the ones I suggested!

Ah, but you didn't suggest removing gender & sex from the question

The question can be skipped anyway.

I don't see how this is an improvement

True IAGTBF - that was an added stroke of genius that I concede was all yours!

Whether that would be enough for everyone I don't know - out for a bit, back later

But wasn't the problem the question itself?

It should be 'sex' not 'gender.'

That was the WHOLE ISSUE.

Can't help but feel that you have missed the point spectacularly here, MNHQ.

I like the idea of not being shown adverts that are irrelevant to me. Let's see.

What gender is "not a drinker, not getting pg again, looking for quality white bamboo flooring, need help with how to make my children listen to me...."

Anyway, if the Q is "sex" and the choices are male or female, surely people who have XXX or XXY chromosomes will not be able tick anything.

Soupy

Not that many will care, but in the Hungarian language - which doesn't actually have gender specific pronouns! - we use the word equivalent to "gender" when stating if someone is male or female.

Article on Facebook gender options.

I'm fascinated by the Hungarian grammatical gender issue. I've long wondered how our native tongue affects our understanding of the world. Are our sensitivities about pronouns more to do with our language than our society?

Language is a minefield :)

As an aside, although the uk passport form asks for gender, the passport itself lists sex. If the two aren't the same, aren't they making assumptions...?

Hey everyone,

I fear I've further muddied the waters here. To be clear - we're not asking for gender or sex. The question will be worded, simply, "Are you..?", and underneath that there'll be a drop-down menu, which will show "Female" as the default answer (based on the site's current usership). If you click on the menu, you'll be able to change it to "Male" or "Other". If you pick "Other", you'll be shown a box saying "Please specify".

Again, to be clear: you don't have to fill ANY of this in.

I cannot see what useful information will come out of this - some will answer on the basis of sex (which would be right as that is what male and "female" refer to) and some will answer on the basis of "gender", which will make the results meaningless, and the other category will not yield much useable information either.

I cannot see what useful information will come out of this

But it doesn't offend anybody, that's the important thing

And some will not answer at all because you can skip it.

just like on this thread...when you ask a question

You still don't seem to be getting the point!

The other thread was all about using 'sex' instead of 'gender'.
Allowing people to duck the question is not the solution.
If you correct the question people won't need to avoid it.

The correct word is SEX.

I would imagine when registering with MN if you could skip any part of the process you would. You want to register and get posting.....