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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Step this way to help shape the future of maternity services in England

160 replies

RowanMumsnet · 10/07/2015 10:50

Hello

As some of you will know, Mumsnet is on the panel of the National Maternity Review, which is an NHS England initiative set up in the wake of the report into the deaths of mothers and babies at the Morecambe Bay hospitals trust.

The remit of the review is to 'assess current maternity care provision and consider how services should be developed to meet the changing needs of women and babies'.

So we'd be really grateful if you could give us your feedback on the following two very broad themes:

Which choices do you wish to be able to make about the maternity care you receive?

What are the key barriers preventing women from making the choices that they wish to?

Thanks - any and all thoughts welcome. (And just FYI, this won't be your only opportunity to feed in, and more detailed feedback systems are going to be launched soon - we'll flag these up as they happen.)

OP posts:
HarimadSol · 16/07/2015 16:05

This is perhaps relatively minor, but I would have liked to have an actual choice about having internal examinations. It was presented as a choice, but the options were be examined or go home (45 min drive each way), be examined or have no pain relief. The examinations didn't even give accurate information as to how close I was to giving birth. I think it's surprising that they will take you at your word when you become pregnant, but not believe you when you say you're in established labour.

kittyvet · 16/07/2015 22:20

More midwife led centres. Choice here of home birth or obstetric ward. No middle way. One to one care. Even though I had a team of midwives for ante and post natal care the size of the team meant I didn't get to know any one person well.

Flisspaps · 17/07/2015 08:13

Harimad yes, yes, yes.

I didn't want any but the MW basically refused to bring any G&A out unless I had a VE as she didn't think I was in established labour. I was contracting for a full minute, every 6 minutes or so Hmm

She did the 1 VE I was prepared to allow. I was 6cm and she did a sweep 'while she was there' - without consent - who needs a sweep at 6 fucking cm? Angry

I complained to the SOM after.

OurDearLeader · 17/07/2015 08:48

Out of reach means anywhere the patient cannot reach in their current condition. If there is doubt the nurse should check. Believe me, access to call buttons is a serious issue and I know of more than one case where there have been sackings as a result of staff not ensuring they are in reach.

captainproton · 17/07/2015 14:58

Haven't read all of the responses but here is my input.

For second and third time mums could the NHS not save money by looking back at maternity notes for blood group / sickle cell. Things that cannot change between pregnancies.

I also hate the way that when you become pregnant you are treated like a child and spoken to so patronisingly. We are just another walking womb they must deal with, but we are people and we have a right to our wants to be heard.

I went to the antenatal lessons at the hospital and also the NCT. The NCT was a lot more informative about birthing positions, mechanics of birth, pain relief options etc. we were basically told at the hospital we would be in agony and begging for an epidural and anyone hoping to birth without epidural were laughed at. I don't know what the point of the lesson was apart from to scare you into doing as you were told by the midwife as you are silly first time mums.

Also when giving birth, if the mum wants you to leave her alone and wants you to shut up asking questions about crap on a checklist, shut up and back off.

If a mother has torn and is not bleeding profusely and she is shouting at you to get your fucking hands out of her vagina because it hurts, get your fucking hands out of her vagina, go get some local anaesthetic and ask nicely.

captainproton · 17/07/2015 15:04

Oh and no men on postnatal wards. I'm sorry if you have no one else to help you apart from your partner, but I don't want to be a hospital curtain away from one, with a catheter, lochia seeping through my nightie, trying to modestly make my way to the loo.

chocolatemartini · 17/07/2015 15:59

Which choices do you wish to be able to make about the maternity care you receive?

I was lucky to have access to a caseload midwife team (Oakwood attached to Kings Hospital in Dulwich) who were amazing, I had a named midwife, the whole range of options open to me re the birth, and I was able to have a home birth with 2 midwives I had met previously. All my wishes were honoured and respected, eg I had no VEs even though their normal protocol was to do them.

What are the key barriers preventing women from making the choices that they wish to?

These caseload teams are not available universally and should be- as far as I understand they are proven to save more money than they cost to run.

RedToothBrush · 20/07/2015 12:47

The focus after Morecambe has largely centred on physical damage to women and children. This is quite right, but there is very little thought being given to the mental health of women which may well stem from a difficult birth (but is not restricted too). The irony is that you'd be hard pushed to find a midwife who doesn't regard childbirth as both a physical and psychological thing where the two can not be separated. Yet this does seem to be being completely lost in modern maternity services.

I was VERY VERY fortunate. I gave birth September 2014. My experience was very much coloured by choices I made, research I was able to do and awareness of my options and rights and a huge element of nothing but pure luck. I spent about 5 years thinking about it, before I felt in a position where I could go through with things.

I choose to have an ELCS for mental health reasons. This is what I did, and what barriers I feel there are to others in a similar situation and why my case seems to be unique rather than the model of good care it should be. That is woman centred care, which is focused not on targets and budgets but what is in the best interests of the woman concerned.

Sadly my experience seems unparalleled by anyone else I've seen post on MN in the last 5 years since I started banging on about the subject. It frustrates me, that my experience should NOT be the exception to the rule. I am very privileged in that I had the ability and the support to take the courses of action I did. This is not how the NHS is supposed to work. It should not be based on people getting better care based on their ability to navigate the system. Its supposed to be equal and should protect the weakest in our society the most rather than those who have the best means.

I'm sorry I can't put this into nice neat 'what choices would you like?' and 'what barriers are there to this?' soundbites as the two go much more hand in hand within my experiences.

MY EXPERIENCE
I approached my GP prior to getting pregnant and was able to be referred for help prior to getting pregnant. This is highly unusual, with few GPs being quite so supportive and few hospitals allowing women in my position, as a woman who had not previously given birth, to get a referral. One of the barriers to this, is until recently the care pathways did not allow a woman who had not given birth to be reffered in this way. They have recently changed it so that any woman who has some sort of mental health related issue should be reffered, but I think in practice this isn't being done (in part due to a lack of awareness of the change) and doesn't cover a lot of women because you have to be diagnosed as having a problem which merits it (which is very subjective and therefore dependant on the doctor you see).

My GP however did not know what to do with me and it was completely down to me to find services available. She was open and honest about this, which was a good thing as she didn't try and fob me off. She recognised there was a clinical problem that needed help, rather than being patronising or otherwise suggesting I was being pathetic or weak minded. She was supportive in saying that I appeared to know more than here on the subject and was happy for me to lead her and her to support me in my choices.

I choose to go to another Trust rather than my local one, because my local Trust did not have any specialist maternal mental health provision. This was supported by my consultant midwife, who subsequently said that he regarded my ELCS as 'clinically indicated' and was a 'need' rather than purely a choice.

Unfortunately I am not alone in living in an area where there is no specialist maternal mental health provision. The Maternal Mental Health Alliance (MMHA) currently have a campaign going to improve this after a report produced in October 2014 by the London School of Economics and the Centre for Mental Health charity and a parallel audit conducted by the MMHA themselves and the Royal College of Psychiatrists found huge disparity in care throughout the country.

This story from the Guardian explains a lot of the arguments and how much this is costing the country. This completely knocks on the head any arguments about not being able to fund better maternal mental health care. Crucially the reports found:

Of 211 clinical commissioning groups in England, the regional organisations that partly replaced primary care trusts last year, just 3% have a formal strategy for perinatal mental health services, with a significant majority having no plans to implement one. and that there are no specialist service at all in 40% of areas in England and Scotland, rising to 70% on Wales and 80% in Northern Ireland. Fewer than 15% of the UK had comprehensive provision.

So even if you do want to make choices relating to your mental health, you are incredibly restricted by where you live as to whether you can access specialist services. This is utterly appalling.

I made it clear that I was as fearful of the red tape surrounding requesting an ELCS as much as the birth itself which I think did me a lot of favours. The hospital bent over backwards to make it as painless a process as possible and didn't try and talk me out of it. Thankfully their policy was to never deny a request for an ELCS because that added to stresses. Instead they worked closely with women who wanted an ELCS and tried to build a proper relationship with them which improved trust and communication. They had a good track record from this, which meant that a sizeable number of women who did initially request an ELCS changed their mind without pressure and did have a VB. This is one of the reasons I wanted to go to this hospital, as there did not seem to be an agenda one way or another and I never felt under any pressure to change my mind. Instead the way they built trust up with me, has been enormously beneficial in the long term in restoring faith in HCPs.

I was offered counselling, which I declined. I have seen a lot of posts on this on MN. Many women are feeling like they are automatically being forced down this route and if they don't comply then they have no hope of getting an ELCS. The way that counselling is framed is being seen as a way of 'talking women out of an ELCS' rather than being something that is in the best interests of the woman concerned. I think this is problematic in many respects. Some women don't want or even need it. Others who do are being put off it, when they might benefit because there is an underlying suspicion of it. Whether this suspicion is justified is up for debate, but I think the context of a 'drive to reduce CS rates' has to be looked at.

I also was given choices which were not in line with standard hospital policy which were designed to help me. My husband was allowed into theatre for my spinal and throughout the procedure (normally he wouldn't have been allowed there for the spinal) and he was allowed to stay over night in a private room to help me cope afterwards. This was invaluable. Yet the facilities are not available in many places to do this, nor is there even a hint in planning and building new maternity units that more private rooms and more flexible and tailored care can be beneficial to the health of women. Its viewed more as a luxury rather than having potential health benefits.

RedToothBrush · 20/07/2015 12:50

OTHER ISSUES
I think one of the first things people say about woman centred care being put ahead of budgets and statistics is the cost of it. I personally think this shows the lack of joined up thinking in maternity as a whole. I mentioned above the report that looked into the cost to society of neglecting maternal mental health. The problem is that budgets begin and end at the labour ward doors and don't extend to longer term health problems - both mental and physical - and the knock on effects they may have for that woman on a wider level to society which include everything from benefits to negligence pay outs. Decisions are being made based on the fact on how much things cost initially which may not reflect the real cost of something. I passionately believe that if you invest more in women centred care then the financial benefits that would reap would be enormous and would benefit women immeasurably regardless of their choices.

The way in which data is being collected is supporting certain ideological and political beliefs rather than looking to improve care and provide evidence based medicine is not helping the matter. Its an epidemic problem.

Studies routinely draw conclusions separating VBs from EMCS which are a possible outcome of a VB and instead group ELCS with EMCS. This is not sound methodology. It makes VBs look safer than they are and ELCS worse than they are, with profound implications for our understanding of risks involved. An ELCS has very different risks to an EMCS. You need to have an exceptional understanding of statistics to be able to understand the data currently available and be able to question its worth to get a true reflection of risk. The trouble is, that even a lot of HCPs are excepting figures at face value, because the figures do support their ideological and political beliefs and the pressures placed on them.

Why is it, that the number of ELCS, EMCS and instrumental births are data that is easily and freely available to the public but there is a massive lack of transparency over 3rd and 4th degree tears? How can women make informed decisions when this crucial information is being with held. Its information that a sizeable proportion of women are concerned about and would like to know. It means that hospitals are much less accountable; there may be some that can boast about high unassisted birth rates but may have a dirty little secret for that.

In addition to this we have great gaps in our knowledge over why women are even having ELCS in the first place. The whole thing needs a major overall.

The Select Committee Fourth Report on health from 2003 stated the following:

80. Around 63% of caesarean sections carried out were identified as emergency procedures, while 37% were identified as elective. The Department noted that, in the Audit, 7% of caesareans were attributed to maternal request. However, the Audit Report itself indicated that such classifications might be misleading:

Caesarean section has traditionally been divided into two groups, either elective or emergency procedures. The emergency category is broad, as it may include procedures done within minutes to save the life of a mother or baby as well as those in which mother and baby are well but where early delivery is desirable … In some centres this has led to an ad hoc local adaptation … This has resulted in data inconsistencies between hospitals

81. With regard to the 'maternal request' category identified by the Department, the Centre for Family Research at the University of Cambridge found that individual obstetricians used different definitions of a maternal request, with some recording this as a reason for undertaking caesarean section even if it had been recommended by clinical staff as the best course of action.

84. Perhaps the most contentious and least understood of these factors is women's choice. The British Association of Perinatal Medicine (BAPM) told us that "greater consumer choice in choosing when and how to deliver", is a factor which contributed to rising caesarean section rates. However, several others detected a perception, fuelled by media coverage of private practice, that the rise in caesarean rates is largely a consequence of maternal request for the procedure. Dr Soo Downe of the Midwifery Studies Research Unit, University of Central Lancashire, told us that:

There appears to be little evidence that the sharp rise in the rates of caesarean section can be fully explained by a rise in maternal requests for the operation. Maternal request subsequent on a traumatic first birth experience may, however, play a small part in the rise.

85. Caesarean section rates in private hospitals are often higher than in the NHS (the Portland Hospital in London has a caesarean section rate of some 44%). As we have noted, while these rates have little impact on national statistics, the levels of public awareness of celebrities who deliver their babies by caesarean section in private hospital may have a disproportionate influence on culture and perceptions.

86. According to the Centre for Family Research at the University of Cambridge, the RCOG and many others who provided written evidence for our inquiry, pregnant women want more information on the risks and benefits of caesarean section and wish to be involved in the decision-making process. A survey carried out between 1999 and 2002 by the Centre for Family Research at the University found that that maternal requests for caesareans were made mainly because of fears about the health of mother or baby. In their most extreme form, these fears constituted a phobia of giving birth (tokophobia), and a small number of seriously traumatised women may need surgery in order to avoid severe psychological problems.

I repeat this is from 2003. Yet here we are in 2015 with very little progress and some of the same problems. My 'clinically indicated need' for an ELCS was recorded as maternal request. There was no recording in the statistics that it had anything to do with my mental health. So despite there being a question raised about a lack of understanding and poor recording of reasons for ELCS BY A PARLIMENTARY GROUP, fuck all has really been done in TWELVE YEARS to address that.

This does highlight my fear that the review may not change anything, unless there is real political will at government and trust level to change things. My worry is, that the can of worms that would be opened by admitting that poor care has lead to women receiving care that is substandard and has damaged their physical and/or mental health is just too big.

The issue is that contrary to the above comment about traumatic first births playing a small part in the rise of maternal requests, www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/nov/14/scared-birth-trauma-midwives in 2010 the Guardian reported the following.

The NHS is responding to a surge in cases of birth trauma by setting up specialist support services to reduce the rising demand for a caesarean delivery from those who, after a bad experience, are scared to undergo labour again.

Midwives say increasing numbers of women are so badly affected by their first experience of birth that they are postponing for years, or abandoning, plans to have any more children.

There are no NHS-wide statistics on the problem. But maternity staff at many hospitals report a rise in such cases over the past two or three years.

At Liverpool Women's hospital, for example, the number of mothers who have asked for an elective caesarean with their forthcoming child, because they suffered trauma the last time, has risen 40%.

Other hospitals, including St Mary's in Manchester and Stepping Hill in Stockport, have seen the same trend and are also introducing counselling services.

At the moment ELCS do seem to be looked at as the solution to traumatic births, which I personally feel even as someone who choose to have an ELCS this really is the wrong approach and is a way of trying to deal with the effects problems rather than dealing with problems themselves.

It is also quite apparent that there is ignorance as to what birth trauma is. I've seen a lot of threads on MN where women have been distressed enough to go for a debrief only to face dismissive comments that they can't be traumatised because they had a 'text book' birth. Which actually is even more damaging. Such comments display an appalling lack of respect to women and a real ignorance of the subject. Especially when you consider that one of the things that makes women feel like this in the first place is a dismissal of them and their feelings.

The Birth Trauma Association knock this out of the water by making the comment that its in the eye of the beholder; basically anyone who feels traumatised is and should be listened to and treated accordingly.

Essentially I think the problems stem from ring fenced budgets, an obsession with targets over humanity, a short sighted health care model, a lack of regard for mental health, a lack of respect and dignity for women, poor communication, political pressures from above meaning that doctors and midwives have a conflict of interest between the needs of the patient and their own jobs, poor understanding of statistics, ideology influencing outcomes, lack of transparency, poor planning and provision of services, massive ignorance of mental health, poor interpretation of guidance, policy over personal care, poor staffing, lack of political interest and will with regard to maternity, a cultural attitude to put up and shut up, women being less empowered, able and willing to complain about poor care, inconsistency and wide disparity in care throughout the country which is confusing to women (and indeed HCPs - one Trust did not understand the format of notes from another in my case), women not even being aware of their rights and when they have good cause to complain and institutionalised backside covering.

I have written an essay and beat the character limit for a single post as it is. I could say a shed tonne more. I hope I haven't killed MNHQ with boredom from my ranting! I'm sorry its not a little more coherent. I hope there is something in there that is of use and makes sense.

StarlightMcKenzee · 20/07/2015 13:08

Fantastic post Redtoothbrush

After my traumatic birth I went the other way and insisted on a homebirth despite some medical indications that triggered the policy to deter me.

I would have not moved from this stance upon report of the severest of emergency as it is my believe that my hospital birth caused my first child's lifelong disability and un-repairable damage to my mental health and my body. Moving to a hospital, in my opinion and strong belief would have NEVER been worth the risk. I would not trust my caregivers to accurately or honestly report the requirement for intervention.

StarlightMcKenzee · 20/07/2015 13:12

And my first birth was nowhere near textbooks. The notes however were.

UpsideDownMama · 20/07/2015 14:56

I have to agree with the level of backside covering that goes on when it comes to your notes etc. I had a debrief and was amazed at some of the things one midwife had written on my notes. There were massive discrepancies for example the number of hours in labour was wrong. 8 hours were missing. Also my reason for transfer to hospital was 'request for epidural' whereas I was told I was going for 'failure to progress'. A subsequent complaint (about a different issue) confirmed the reason was actually the latter contrary to the notes. These are not minor errors. The discrepancies are so big that i find it hard to believe these are just unfortunate errors. Women need an independent body where we can share concerns about our care that will hold the people concerned to account. People within the system are proactively covering their own backs with the notes. A complaint to the nhs trust simply initiates a rapid cover up. It's pointless asking the same people who provided the poor care to investigate themselves.

maamalady · 20/07/2015 15:28

Excellent post, RedToothbrush. I always like your posts, I've come across them a lot - unsurprising as my DD was born in July last year so we must have both been reading the same threads :)

Incidentally, DD was born by EMCS because her head was too big for my (fully dilated) cervix. Her birth was very similar to my own, except my poor mother had a grade four tear and episiotomy with ventouse. I'm sure that EMCS was easier to recover from, not least because it was less mentally traumatic than I imagine a damaging vaginal birth to be.

If I am ever pregnant again (unlikely, though it is possible IVF will work again for us), I will be requesting an ELCS. It doesn't seem likely to me that a VBAC is likely to be successful or trauma-free (physically or mentally). At least having already had a section hopefully means I'd have more chance of being granted another, but I'm not at all sure why hope should come into medical treatment.

UpsideDownMama · 20/07/2015 16:25

What about an annual random sampling of women who had birthed at the maternity unit in the previous 2 years. Asking questions about their care before during and after labour, including things like whether they felt their decisions were respected, postnatal care, their feelings about their care, and any birth injuries for mother and baby (short and long term). Questions would need careful thought. But if they published something like this about my local maternity units I would definitely use it when choosing where to birth and hopefully maternity units would shift some of their focus to achieving good scores on this survey which would increase woman-centred care. I'm no expert on this so its just an idea for the experts to consider...

RedToothBrush · 20/07/2015 16:47

Just seen this thread about requesting an Elcs, which says that its stamped in big letters that THIS TRUST WILL NOT PERFORM AN ELECTIVE CAESARIAN SECTION FOR NON MEDICAL REASONS

I think this should be banned as it has profound implications for those who have cause for an ELCS on mental health grounds.

90% of the thread I see on the subject the OP is not aware or does not recognise the fact that mental health IS a medical reason. (The clue is in the health bit of mental health) Trusts are quite deliberately exploiting this and trying to put off women from making a request by bullying tactics. This is a group of women who are vulnerable and actually need MORE support, rather than being marginalised and actively dismissed without even getting the chance to discuss how they feel.

I think that a request for an ELCS generally should be treated more as a red flag to needing more support (even if that does not mean mental health intervention or counselling) rather than something that should be treated with such utter contempt.

The reason that this is happening is because of the persistence of this 'too posh to push' attitude rather than doing what the 2003 select committee recommended which was to closely examine maternal requests. The worst bit is that NICE did look at available research this in their CS guidance which seemed to be at odds with the 'too posh too push' myth yet this is still being ignored.

Trusts are very much relying on 'The Daily Mail effect' allowing them to take this approach and have such policies because they are supported by certain sections of popular thought rather than being led by the Institute that is supposed to advice on best practice and policy for optimum health outcomes.

I personally think this type of behaviour is a dereliction of duty. It fails women and it pushes some to seek out alternative hospitals who are more sympathetic to their cause. However this means the Trust in question gets nice shiny stats whereas their neighbour who is doing the right thing by women gets hard questions asked about it, which is not right on any level. Or women feel they have no option but to go private. Again meaning that those less able and having the least access to the most appropriate care.

Similar arguments about using populist politics against women instead of following the research and recommendations can be made about the cutting of provision of home births too. Won't someone think of the poor babies that are not harmed any more or any less for women who have already had one baby. Those utterly selfish women, draining the NHS by having a cheaper birth. Hmm

Why are we not holding Trusts that are behaving in this way accountable?

Coastingit · 20/07/2015 21:45

Applauding RedToothbrush.

IceBeing · 21/07/2015 12:51

red hi - we have been on many labour and postnatal threads together and I am glad you have come on this one to add your perspective.

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2015 13:58

Sorry MNHQ!

Got another one bit for you that relates to something I posted above about the lack of maternal mental health services and Trusts not even having plans to implement a strategy.

I was just perusing the NICE guidance on Antenatal and postnatal mental health: clinical management and service guidance which was updated in Dec 2014.

I noticed this point in the recommendations:
The organisation of services
• Clinical networks should be established for perinatal mental health services, managed by a coordinating board of healthcare professionals, commissioners, managers, and service users and carers. These networks should provide:
? a specialist multidisciplinary perinatal service in each locality, which provides direct services, consultation and advice to maternity services, other mental health services and community services; in areas of high morbidity these services may be provided by separate specialist perinatal teams
? access to specialist expert advice on the risks and benefits of psychotropic medication during pregnancy and breastfeeding
? clear referral and management protocols for services across all levels of the existing stepped?care frameworks for mental health problems, to ensure effective transfer of information and continuity of care
? pathways of care for service users, with defined roles and competencies for all professional groups involved. [2007]

Great! This is a fantastic guideline. Except that this recommendation was made in 2007 and the two reports I mentioned previously highlighted that this guidance appears to have been completely ignored for OVER SEVEN YEARS.

I'd dearly like to know why this is the case.

IceBeing · 27/07/2015 10:26

What is the out come of this thread MNHQ?

There are clearly several themes developing and several willing activists...so what happens now?

ScorpioMermaid · 27/07/2015 10:55

I'd just like to point out how crap my postnatal care has been.
I had dd on the 13/7 an 11lb breech. didn't know this until her bottom was visible. I ended up in theatre after a massive pph.

I was discharged on 15/7 feeling awful but desperately wanting my home comforts.
saw cmw 16/7 at home and then again on 18/7. I had a phone call arranging discharge on the 21/7 and I'm being discharged on 31/7 but don't have an appointment to see anyone inbetween and haven't since the 18/7.

Is it acceptable to see me last at p5 and discharge me at p18 with no appointments inbetween? no one has asked about my mental health, which i think is shocking seeing as I had a traumatic birth and my dd was lifeless for her first 2 minutes.

It must be bease dd is my 9th baby and I "know what I'm doing" Hmm

RowanMumsnet · 27/07/2015 10:55

Morning

Thanks so much for all of this: it's been incredibly helpful. I've used the posts on this thread to give some initial feedback on MNers' views to the review. Emerging themes seem to be around:

the real nature of 'choice' - are women supported to make all kinds of choices, including eg the choice to refuse an instrumental birth and have an ELCS instead?
the paucity of data and evidence around long-term physiological impacts of birth, especially instrumental births; does more data and evidence need to be systematically collected?
similarly, would it be helpful to collect and publish a great deal more data about births of all kinds, and whether women feel listened to/trusted by their health workers, and allow it to be broken down in various ways (eg by unit/trust, first birth/subsequent births)?
the tension between targets (eg for caesarians) and choice
Bounty (!)
concern about lack of resources/money (eg unavailability of birthing centres), and about the ending of the Supervisor of Midwives position
the ongoing crisis in inpatient postnatal care, and concern about unintended consequences of allowing partners to stay on postnatal wards
concern about institutional paternalism and individual instances of unpleasantness/poor attitude among staff
poor provision for mental health care at all stages from conception to postnatal, and particularly a failure to address issues arising from birth trauma

This isn't intended to be a comprehensive summary of the thread - please rest assured that we have read and disgested all the posts - but do shout if you think we're missing something really crucial.

For now, this is hugely useful for us in shaping our responses to matters arising in the review.

There's going to be an official online 'listening exercise' (probably in the form of a survey, or several surveys) in which all members of the public will be encouraged to feed in to the review and shape its outputs - obviously we will draw your attention to this when it's launched and we do encourage all of you to get involved and flag it up to your networks as much as possible; the data gathered from these surveys will be important to the outputs of the review.

There are also going to be physical/in-person events for the public up and down England throughout August and September - again, we'll let you have the details of these when we've got them and would encourage you to go along if you can to make your voices heard.

And as ever, if there's anything you'd like to feed in to us off-board (or any documents/links you'd like us to have a look at in more detail) do please email us on [email protected]

Thanks
MNHQ

OP posts:
ScorpioMermaid · 27/07/2015 10:56

Because *

IceBeing · 27/07/2015 14:33

Thanks Rowan it is really good to hear where this data is going and how it fits into planning for the future.

I personally would be very happy to contribute in any way possible on the topic of post traumatic mental health problems associated with either traumatic births or traumatic post natal experiences and will keep my eyes open for this information when it arrives.

IceBeing · 27/07/2015 14:36

scorpio so sorry to read your experience. Do you think you are actually okay from a MH point of view?

RowanMumsnet · 28/07/2015 16:00

Hello again

Here's the list of the events that will be taking place across England (copy taken from the National Maternity Review):

"The NHS Maternity Review wants to hear from you! Please come and share your views and experiences of maternity services and care."

"The NHS Maternity Review will be hosting a number of events around the country as part of its national tour to hear how women, their families and advocates, provider organisations and the professional bodies involved in maternity care feel about the current services. We also want to know what you would like the Review Panel to bear in mind as our members go about their work. These events are an opportunity to share your experiences, contribute to the work of the Review, and have your voice heard."

"The feedback from these events will contribute directly to the work of the Review and we are keen to hear from women, their families, those who work in maternity services and other professional bodies. All are welcome to come and share your views."

"The Review will be visiting the following locations on the dates below. Final details for some of these events will be circulated in due course."

"Tuesday 4th August, 10am-7pm - The Lancaster Suite, Preston Guildhall & Conference Centre, Preston
Friday 7th August, 9am-4.30pm - Morton Park Family & Community Centre, Carlisle
Thursday 13th August, 10am-8pm - Holyfields Centre, Birmingham
Tuesday 25th August, 10am-7pm - Acorn Children’s Centre, Taunton
Wednesday 26th August, 9am-7pm - venue tbc, Plymouth
Tuesday 1st September, 9am-7pm - St Nicolas Centre, Ipswich
Wednesday 2nd September, 9am-7pm - The Kings Centre, Norwich
Friday 4th September, 9am-7pm - venue tbc, St. Albans
Thursday 17th September, 10am-7pm - venue tbc, Sheffield
Friday 18th September, 10am-7pm - venue tbc, Manchester
Monday 21st September, 10am-7pm - venue tbc, East London
Wednesday 7th October, 10am-7pm - venue tbc, Newcastle"

"For more information, please contact [email protected]. We hope to see many of you there."

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