Isn't about time MNHQ started deleting posts that attack people's spelling and grammar?

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

(In advance I will say any of my posts are likely to have spelling and grammar mistakes)

It's such a shitty thing to do and often it is directed at poster who then feel they have to explain themselves and disclose they have dyslexia. I don't understand why MN tolerate people with potential disabilities being mocked in this way?

Why can it not be regarded as a personal attack and such comments deleted. Very often the arses that post comments about another posters spelling bring nothing else to the thread and usually it derails the thread and the OP's original issue gets lost in the ensuing bunfight.

I teach French and German. Usually (in my experience) dyslexic children have similar trouble with any language. However, some find German considerably easier than French because of the relatively straightforward spelling.

I have taught quite a few dyslexic students over the years who have had not too much trouble with their foreign language, in spite of major spelling problems in English. And a couple who seemed to have no dyslexic issues at all with the foreign language (usually German)! This really astonished me and made me think that occasionally dyslexia may be related to the way or circumstances in which a child picks up their native language iyswim.

That's really interesting, holmes.

I do think it can be to do with acquisition. But, also, some dyslexics don't seem to have huge phonetic issues, or they present differently.

I'm fine with languages, but what I find hard is alphabets - I struggled for ages to understand how to read and write the English (Roman) alphabet, but once I'd got that down I was fine in French or whatever. But when I tried to learn Greek, which has a different alphabet, I was totally lost. Same with Russian.

It's all very odd.

I realize BIWI didn't mean to be upsetting and I did see she was quite upset when quoted her talking about the 'lowest common denominator' and she wanted to be very clear she hadn't intended that to describe anyone. But, she and other are, I think, tending to assume that accurate SPAG are good signs of people who appreciate good language, and interesting debates, and so on.

Of course I didn't mean to be upsetting I made it very clear that I dislike sneering at people's spelling and grammar. Whether that be on a sensitive thread or not.

And nowhere have I said that I see accurate spelling and grammar as 'signs of people who appreciate good language, and interesting debates'

Please don't put words in my mouth. Again.

I didn't know that about languages. I quite liked German but French I could not get at all and I still have no idea. When I was learning French at school I made no improvement in the 3 years that we were taught it. I'm not dyslexic, I actually did well in English but I am dyspraxic. I wonder if there is a link?

Ooh I've always wanted to learn a language with a different alphabet! My capacity to do so is probably not what it once was though, sadly!

Yes, the acquisition thing is interesting. I guess maybe some dyslexic people benefit from the more structured way in which one learns a foreign language. And the fact that you start from the very beginning. Whereas obviously when you do English at school, it is assumed that you know an awful lot already because you speak it! You absorb so much as a tiny child, but if your brain isn't quite processing it in the right way, you can't really go back and start again!

Maybe, thehumanjam. It is normal to find one foreign language easier than another, but I often think it has more to do with the individual and which language 'suits' them (or often simply which one they started first).

German is usually thought to be a difficult language, but it really depends on what aspects if a language you tend to find difficult (pronunciation, grammar, spelling etc). French is an absolute bugger for spelling, but grammatically easier than German. I always found French easier, but many find German so.

sorry - a bit off-topic! Back to the pedant vs anti-pedant battle .

Thehumanjam, German is very logical and pronounced in a common-sense way. All this is very interesting to me: my kids struggled with French but found German much better; an (admittedly rather gimmicky) introduction to Mandarin (different alphabet) did not go down well. It shows how important individual learning styles are; and not condemning kids who just don't get it. Shame - I was out with a secondary school language teacher last night - I could've had a good discussion with her about it!

When I started learning French it felt to me like I had missed a few years and was starting in the middle. I couldn't read or attempt to read the words and no clue how to pronounce anything.

I started German the year after and that was so much more logical in my mind.

I have noticed over the years particularly since I had children that I have problems deciphering sounds in people's speech. It's taken me all these years to work that out!

Look, BIWI, you used some pretty hurtful phrases. You then jumped down my throat for taking them differently from the way you say you meant them, and I apologized, and now you're jumping down my throat again.

So, I'm afraid I'm going to stop pandering to your ego.

I did find your posts really upsetting. I did feel that phrase was horrible and shitty. I do feel that talking about having 'high standards' in this context is fucking rude and discriminatory.

Happy now?

Or would you prefer I continued to pretend you didn't say anything wrong, and to crawl back into my ever-so-humble box, and ask you politely to use your enormous erudition to help poor little stupid me when I misspell something?

And, I think pretending I quoted you (in the singular) when I attributed a position to you and others in the plural is either disingenuous, or a sign you need to go away and learn the difference between a paraphrase and 'putting words in someone's mouth'.

No, Jeanne, I'm not happy. Because none of what I said was about you personally.

You took what I said out of context, both times.

Eh?

I didn't think it was about me personally. I explained it upset me, as I am sure it upset others.

I don't think I have taken it out of context, but if I had, you could have taken my apology in the spirit it was intended, instead of getting on your high horse.

You might even consider whether you, too, might be misinterpreting things from time to time.

thehuman There is also a lot of crossover between dyslexia and dyspraxia. As in people with dyspraxia often show some of the characteristics of someone with dyslexia.

Incidentally I am mildly dyslexic with Irlens syndrome and dyspraxia thrown in but found Spanish much easier to learn than French.

When I started learning French it felt to me like I had missed a few years and was starting in the middle. I couldn't read or attempt to read the words and no clue how to pronounce anything

^^ This for me too. I just couldn't get my head round the letters having different sounds, the sentence structure seemed completely back to front.

I could learn odd words but no chance of stringing a translated sentence together.

I picked German up so easily Just seemed so simple. Forgotten it all now

I am dyslexic, and some words(English)to me sound almost the same but apparently are poles apart. I think Eddie Izzard said he struggles with something similar too. But then he is also very fluent multilingualist, so not so similar

It is upsetting to read that posters with less than perfect grammar are not welcome on MN.

Well, or that they're welcome, but that they should welcome being corrected, and should recognise that their posts constitute a lowering of standards.

There must be loads of lurkers who don't post because they are scared that they can't write proper like.

There was a thread the other day berating anyone who didn't speak with an RP accent. Calling people thickos and worse. I'm glad I don't live in such a narrow minded world.

YY, Sticky. exactly that.

don't know if this makes sence. but if people were to make negitive comments about a childs spelling/dyslexia we would be shot. but its ok to do it to an adult. ie the child we dont pick on will one day be that adult we do pick on for being dyslexic. hopefully someone gets me

i think its really sad if people really do feel they cant post :(

I wish I did agree, ghost - and I understand you, I think - but I've seen people be absolutely horrible about children's spelling. Not usually on MN. On MN, if it happens, it's indirect: so people will express shock and horror at the idea of a child who can't spell studying English Lit. That I have heard, and I find it really upsetting - my little brother is really pretty dyslexic and there was a lot of this in his education. And people don't seem to realize that an essay-writing subject might still be your best subject, even if you aren't as good as they might like.

But in RL I notice this a lot. A lot of children get made to feel awful about spelling/grammar and really feel insecure about it.

Yes it makes perfect sense ghostspirit. I'm sure MN would delete these posts if they were cropping up in the Special Needs sections but it seems they only want to pay lip service to their "this is my child" campaign