Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We've been asked (in advance of primary school places allocation announcements in England, Wales and NI next week) for MNers' thoughts on the current systems for allocating primary places - so as ever we thought we'd come to you for your insights.

What do you think about how your LA allocates places? Have you found the process stressful? Do you think the difficulty/stress varies widely across the nation - and if so, which locations are particularly difficult and which are relatively stress-free? If you're in Scotland, where the system is different, do you think it works well (or not?) Would you support a change to the allocation system - and if so, how would you like to see it changed?

Any thoughts welcome. Best of luck to anyone waiting to hear about their child's place.

Obviously people saw that the summerborn issue was picked up on this thread and have continued the conversation.

With regards to using CSA for compulsory school age, it's a long word to type right?! If someone has spotted it being shortened then why wouldn't you use it?

Maybe there's some new concerns about admissions this time round, the summerborn issue has featured heavily in national newspapers and television recently; more people are aware than ever before. Its a hot topic.

I am also desperate to get into a vaguely decent, local school with as little stress as possible and I wanted to highlight to MNHQ how much more stress I have had to face through the admissions process having a summerborn. As previously stated, I could only indicate ONE preference, ONE!! What if that school is oversubscribed, where does that leave me? We are at a huge disadvantage.

Haven't read all but ArcheryAnnie - that sucks! I am a Christian (and active in my church) and my DS has got into a brilliant school as a result, so I am one that's benefitted from that criterium.... however, people living in the parish (irrespective of faith) are prioritised over families of faith that are outside it, and that might be a way to ensure bizarre situations like yours don't arise.

I think the siblings/ moving rule is a good one, as certainly with rented/ temporarily living with grandma etc situations, there do seem to be many people willing to go that far for a foot in the door of a good school.

I've eaten a whole Easter egg whilst posting my comments on here tonight without even noticing.

That, added to my school admission stress has tipped me over the edge.

From viewing the comments on this thread, it appears that their are some very divisive issues, but why is this? At the end of the day, we are all trying to do the best we can by our children, but it's not always possible it seems.. that's not necessarily the fault of parents. It's a fault of the admissions systems in place. There are thousands of different admission authorities, and multiple admission arrangements which parents have to negotiate. It's often complicated and confusing, even though it should not be. The process should be clear, fair and objective, and admission authorities should comply with legislation in place. But it's not and not all do, otherwise there would be no need for parents to refer objections to the Office of the Schools Adjudicator.

Lack of school places, no surplus in the system no doubt have an effect on this - that's not our fault. The outgoing government may blame the previous government and so on and so forth for this... the next government though absolutely cannot deny that there is a problem here, and they will need to address it.
(And what doesn't help is the DfE and admission authorities advising parents to apply for a school place in the year they do not want)

So if summerborn campaigners come on here regularly and start a thread about the issue then that will make the issue a 'mumsnetter' concern and will therefore be legitimate?

The issue is real, and of concern to thousands of parents regardless of how many times it is mentioned in threads. And surely the clues in the title, the OP asked for people's opinions on the admissions and one major flaw in the code has been rightly raised.

Im more concerned that certain authorities are now funding their staff to dissect threads like this, enjoy the flurry of summerborn applications!

When we were looking for a new house we ruled out huge areas as the closest schools were faith schools and thus there was no point living there as our child would have been disadvantaged in the admissions round. I also would be happy to see an end to faith based admissions processes.

In terms of the summer born campaigners, and where there aren't significant developmental delays, I also agree with petalunicorn that a lot of it comes across as I just don't want my child to be the youngest in the class. Maybe that's not your intention but that's how it reads. I don't see a problem with deferrals where there are developmental delays, as opposed to some kids just being younger than some other kids in the class.

Some of the posts read as if the August born kids will be in a class full of September born kids ,instead of a class with a spread of birthdays throughout the year., the vast majority of whom will have started before their CSA. In my DC's class there are no kids with September birthdays and in fact the vast majority of kids are summer born. it's a single form entry so that's just the way it turned out.

I'm the mother of an (earlier) summer born child who would not want my DC in a class with kids that are up to 15 months older. I would rather that reception is kept as play based as possible and there was a much gentler easing into more formal learning in Year 1.

I'd never heard anyone, ever, bring up the summerborn thing - I didn't even know it WAS a thing - and that might be because the primary school that my DC went to was both out of my borough (see all my previous posts re not being able to get him into anything local because wrong faith) and it was a school of last resort, the kind your kid goes to when your elbows simply aren't sharp enough to get them anywhere else. (Not that there was anywhere else to get them into, unless I went private or moved house, neither of which was possible.)

And as it happens, it turned out to be a lovely school, one I'd recommend to anyone. The demographic was very low-income (70% FSM), and most other parents were as blunt-elbowed as me. None of us knew that deferral was a possibility, but I don't think it would have been taken up anyway. A lot of the kids needed all the schooling they could get, reception was very play-based, and it was a warm and active place which the children loved. (And there was a spread of children with birthdays all through the year. I think the eldest had an October birthday.) I don't think any of the children would have benefited from deferral, and I don't think any were disadvantaged (quite the opposite) from them all starting before they turned 5.

If you want to campaign on summerborns, that's entirely your perogative, but be aware that many of us think it's a non-issue.

My DC are all at school now so have been through this process 3 times. (And secondary school admissions twice...)

I do not think there should be faith schools at all. Two of my nearest schools are faith schools. We were therefore disadvantaged in the admissions process as I could not and would not apply for either of these. I do not want my children to attend a faith school (regardless of whether I would get in or not).

Having named schools as part of the admission criteria is useful and I like it as we have benefited fro it. For instance our infant school is separate from the juniors. However the admission criteria for the juniors is attendance of the infants, therefore making the changeover less stressful.

Summer borns - I have two. I would not want to defer their entry. I can see the problem at the other end. What happens when they reach 16 and are only in Y10. Can they then leave without taking their GCSEs?

DC2 won't be of "CSA" until September 2016, although he is already four. In fact 5/12 of a cohort will not be until Y1.

Which is precisely why Reception is EYFS and not KS1.

If you AS "CSA" you get 99 refs to the child support agency, and this thread. Whilst I acknowledge that it is an issue, I think most MNers would acknowledge it a problem for premature and immature late July/August birthdays only.

By contrast nearly everyone agrees that the applications process is too confusing even for literate, engaged parents, and that underprovision and inequality have made selection/priority criteria problematic or even discriminatory.

ArcheryAnnie,
Really glad that for your child things turned out for the better.
I must tell you though, that I am scared of people like you and some of the others on here.
You say Summerborns Campainers only fight for their own child, which is not true as many have explained already, but even if it was it would be a much better attitude than the one you have. What youndo is fighting against giving people a right and a choice just because it does not effect you personally. Who's the egocentric one? What difference does it make to you if everyone is given a choice? Who does not want to use it, is surely no worse off just by having it. The contrary cannot be said. It really amazes me that people can be so short sighted. The way people treat a minority tells a lot about their degree of civilisation. Thank goodness, things in the world change despite people like you or we would still have women not allowed to be engineers, soldiers or gay to get married.
And by the way, the fact that you never came across the Summerborn issue clearly shows that you have not even been reading major newspapers or watching the news on TV. Keeping up with the world just with MN is not very informative, let me tell you...

Eh, myrtlehh? I'm not fighting against anybody, just saying that I have never come across this as an issue within school, ever.

As for the rest of your (pretty bizarre) post - weren't you ever taught that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

I think it's really off to have lots of people come on to a thread like this clearly to promote a single issue, and completely ignore everyone pointing out how your plan would disadvantage other children.

I have a child with hearing loss, he hasn't got a proper diagnosis yet because it's not a simple case. We don't know if he will have got one before I have to apply for a school place and therefore how likely we are to get a priority admission or adaptations made in time for him starting. I'm not sure that there is an answer to this that would also work well for other parents and allow schools time to plan or I would have made a suggestion!

What really, really would not help my DS - given that he is December born, is to have a third of his class be both the academic year older and significantly more able than him due to their extra time at preschool - shifting the focus of the class to be much more academic to suit the older children's needs and demanding more of the small group resources time that he needs, as a deaf child that might not wear hearing aids, to get anything at all done in a school setting.

It will be much better for my son to have a smaller age spread of children with a smaller range of ability, including those less able because they are young in their year, where he is not obviously the child with SN but one of a small group going at their own pace and supporting each other.

Obviously some people loathe the idea of having their child lumped in with SN kids enough to kick up a massive stink about it though...

Thank goodness, things in the world change despite people like you or we would still have women not allowed to be engineers, soldiers or gay to get married

Forget Stonewall, forget the suffragettes - to the barricades, comrades, for the middle class summerborns!

Seriously you lot, if this is important to you, talk about it all you like, that's fine. It's also fine if some of us point out that we struggle to see it as the most pressing problem that education has ever faced.

That's a good point, TeWi.

I'm with Archeryannie on this. I have been reading these boards for 2 years. I have DC at a huge school with a high number of summer borns. I know parents across all years. I have friends in loads of other schools with young DC in reception and several summer borns. No one has ever raised it as an issue. Reception in a good school is play based and not full of kids sat at desks doing hours of formal learning. I think a lot of people misunderstand reception year. The expectation at the end of the year is basic stuff to get them ready for KS1. It makes me sad when I hear of schools that do seem more formal or parents who want that.

Obviously some people loathe the idea of having their child lumped in with SN kids enough to kick up a massive stink about it though...

No Tewi, what I loathe is the idea of children bring misdiagnosed with SEN. And there is EVIDENCE that August born children are more likely to be misdiagnosed and we are talking about 90% likelihood. Not 1, not 10, but 90%!!! That's nearly all of them!!!

TeWi, your post reminds me of something that comes up often on admissions - children who probably will get a statement of needs at some point but are too young at the moment of the deadline for assessments and tests to have been completed.

I don't know if there is any way to expedite such assessments though.

I think the summer born concerned parents should focus ideally on choosing a school for the DC that is really geared up for 4 year olds with amazing EYFS facilities and teachers. All the schools I have seen do - look at seperate outdoor classrooms, playgrounds or play times, staff ratios, support levels etc
Of course however they may not all be open to them due the admissions minefield and they may need to be the correct faith lol

tiggytape that was a very clear and useful post, thank you.

myrtlehh I stand corrected - I would now fight against the right for deferral on demand. Hope that helps.

Myrtle, do you have a link for that?

Are you saying that 90% SEN kids are August born or that 90% of August borns are SEN?
Definately not my experience.

Almostapril or look for a school with a very low income demographic - which handily will be easy to get into as no middle class people put it as their first choice. My DS's school had a lot of the things you mention as useful to summerborns, possibly because a lot of the intake, of whatever age, needed a lot of support to get ready for the more formal aspects of schooling later.

Is that 90% of summer borns are incorrectly diagnosed with SEN or 90% of those diagnosed have an error in their diagnosis? Is that through the entire school career or in YR?

Just seems ironic to rail against SEN diagnosis whilst at the same time requesting special provision for your child.