Primary school admissions - MNHQ needs your thoughts!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

We've been asked (in advance of primary school places allocation announcements in England, Wales and NI next week) for MNers' thoughts on the current systems for allocating primary places - so as ever we thought we'd come to you for your insights.

What do you think about how your LA allocates places? Have you found the process stressful? Do you think the difficulty/stress varies widely across the nation - and if so, which locations are particularly difficult and which are relatively stress-free? If you're in Scotland, where the system is different, do you think it works well (or not?) Would you support a change to the allocation system - and if so, how would you like to see it changed?

Any thoughts welcome. Best of luck to anyone waiting to hear about their child's place.

Gosh, you have a very rosy view of parental engagement in education.

I am not afraid of anything . I just don't think it's a good idea. I still haven't seen a rationale for it that boils down to anything except "I want the best for my child". Which is absolutely as it should be, but isn't a reason to build public policy. The solution that would benefit children more widely would be to make YR and Y1 far less formal and far more flexible in approach and expectations and/or to shift the cut off so the youngest child was at least 4.5.

As I've mentioned, I was speaking recently to a teacher in Scotland who really dislikes their deferral system. It isn't the children who are most likely to struggle in P1 who are deferring, it's the parents who are educated themselves and highly engaged and want to give their child the benefit of an extra year in pre-school (and the benefit of being the oldest in their year). I have family in an affluent area of Scotland who have said the same thing. It also creates a big spread, especially in a mixed age class. Tehre wouldn't be a magical correlation between the children who would defer and the children who would benefit more from a deferral.

oink - Well, they would all do it like a shot even though it's inconvenient if they thought it would guarantee a large number of votes!

We were successfully granted our reception class request for our summer born child to start school in reception class at compulsory school age (by two admission authorities, one local authority and one academy).

It was a very stressful, drawn out process.

However, nail-biting wait for offers later this month to see if allocated a place in those preferred schools. If not, then what happens.... a place in any school that will accept a reception class start (more negotiating with little time to do it in), or perhaps any school in the county that has a Y1 place free? The system is a shambles.

The solution that would benefit children more widely would be to make YR and Y1 far less formal and far more flexible in approach and expectations and/or to shift the cut off so the youngest child was at least 4.5.

penguin I would absolutely NOT disagree with you on that matter. In fact, I am the first one to stand next to you in campaigning for that. However, the political reality is that it is not going to happen. When ALL political parties support early formal intervention, making CSA higher won't happen

I am from the country where CSA is from 6.5 yo up to 8 and it is the parents' choice which particular September they decide to send their kid to school. Needless to say, summerborn issue does not exist there.

I want to start my August born daugther at compulsory school age but it's looking like my only option is for her to start in year one. I don't see why I should have to do this. Why should she miss a full year of education by starting when she has to? I would be fined if I choose to take her out of school. The system is ridiculous.

I already have a son in school, so I don't have the luxury of choice of which school I apply to, so I have to depend on the views of his headteacher as to whether he will support a 'delay'. My council are unlikely to agree to it without his backing.

As is age-inappropriate national curriculum induced SEN.

My child is a summer born baby and I do not understand why she has to start school at just turned 4?!
She is no way near ready to start and I will do all I can to make sure she can start at 5.
We should be like many countries in Europe where kids flourish at school when they start a lot older! 6-7.

I would love for the KS1 curriculum to be changed to a more play based one - an extension of the foundation stage. Give children lots of time to learn and develop through play and investigation. At least then if parents decided to start their summer borns at CSA they would just miss a year of "school" but would still be able to have the foundations set throughout years 1 and 2. (Although parents should be able to 'defer' IMO)

We seem to feel the need to put so much pressure on at a young age and I do think for a lot of children it makes school harder, or more of a chore, than it should be.

I haven't got the to the point of applying yet, but I am concerned about a couple of years in the future when we get there. My son was born on 30 August 2013, and I'm concerned about the effect that being so young compared to his peers, and starting formal schooling at barely four, might have on him and his experience of school.

While, currently, I can apply for him to delay a year (and so start school in reception at compulsory school age), there is no guarantee that this will be accepted and it is currently a real postcode lottery as to how accepting the LEA is of delaying entry by a year. Many LEAs try to force the child straight into year 1 instead of allowing them to have their full seven years of primary education.

I would just like to have the choice, so that when we get to the point of applying for schools we can look at where our son is at and assess whether we think he will be ready to start school mere days after he turns four, or whether he would benefit from waiting an extra year, until he actually reaches compulsory school age, to start reception.

I don't understand why the guidelines from the Dfe are being followed in some areas of the country for summer born children but not in others. It is grossly unfair. Researchers have shown that summer born children are at a significant disadvantage, which in turn leads to misdiagnosis of SEN which costs everyone money and has a detrimental effect on the children's education. This is not how it's done in other countries. The bureaucrats have been allowed to take over. What happened to 'every child matters'???

Sirzy -totally agree re ks1.

I have successfully managed to obtain acceptance of my summer born son to start in reception at CSage. The LA were easy to deal with although did send a 'helpful' letter outlining the reasons why being educated out of his chronological year group could be damaging to him. They seemed to fail to see that if he was born 22 days later, there would be no issue at all!

I know that many LA's are not as easy to deal with regarding acceptance of summerborns into YR at CSAge....so I count myself and my son lucky.

However, being out of his 'chronological' year group meant that I could not apply for a schools place online as his DOB did not register with the online system...not helpful. So on 16th April, I will not find out about which school my son has got into via email. I will have to wait to get a letter. Fair application system for all....I think not! CSage is the LEGAL stating age of school and should therefore a parent exercising their right to send their child to school in the term following their 5th birthday should not be 'locked' out of the online application process.

Also, forgot to mention that it is very hard to get through to the LA via telephone and when you do, the operatives did not know the answers to any of my questions :(

Am in Wales with a summer born prem who started reception aged 5. there is no guidance here and the council is not interested, leaving it to individual schools. Messy, not transparent and adds another layer of awkward.

My son was born in August 2011 (almost 4 weeks early) and is due to start Reception in September just 10 as after turning 4. I'm currently in he process of getting a delay agreed so that he can start Reception Class next year at Compulsory school age instead. Even though the admissions code states that this is possible for a summer born child aslong as it is in their best interests, my local authority seem set on trying their hardest to not let it happen. I'm finding it all very stressful and even if we are eventually successful, we could then possibly face having to lose a year of my sons education at some point in the future. Examples of this include when he starts secondary school or if we were to move to a different area etc It seems like it's a postcode lottery and the summer born guidance which was updated in Dec 2014 is so subjective that different local authorities are making up their own rules regarding it. I've had to have a meeting with the headteacher of our first choice school and will soon be presenting our case to the school governors, all before we even know if he'll be given a place at he school on offers day! If we're unsucxesful then our only other 'options' are either for him to start this year as a very young 4 year old who is definitely not ready for school or to wait until he's compulsory school age and have him forced to go straight into Year 1 and lose out on a year of his education. Totally unfair and illogical!

Flexibility is key here, forcing square pegs into round holes simply isn't working - it's obvious. Summer-borns are at a very real disadvantage when it comes to early education in England and there's plentiful research that proves this. I agree that summer-borns parents have had to get clued up - I knew nothing about education system a year ago, and am now in my 8th month of battling with local admissions to allow my child to start school at CSA. I am foreign myself and wouldn't consider myself particularly privileged but I do want my son to do his best in school. Doesn't everyone?

I agree that:

a) children here are forced into primary education way too young (research showing 6 or 7 is far more appropriate age to ensure children to benefit most and thrive in their school life). the reality is that most kids start at age 4 and spending resources in supporting these poor kids - summer born or not - clearly simply too young for formal learning is a poor way of dealing with a problem. it's like putting a plaster on a broken leg really.

b) there should be some real degree of flexibility when it comes to admissions and DOB should not be a determining factor (other countries - in fact, almost all other countries have managed this nicely so it baffles me as to why England can't)

c) all children should be entitled to 7 years primary education

d) parents wishes should be adhered to when it comes to deciding which year a child should be admitted to - nobody wants their child 'left behind' but parents know their kids best and for LA to ignore this, is madness.

Just to add a slightly different slant to things, I agree that more flexibility (and transparency and consistency) is key but I would NOT vote for the Canadian system. DS1 is April born and started reception this year and has thrived on the mix of structure and play in Reception, he has bloomed so much and didn't really enjoy Nursery at all - too random and free flow - and short, without the opportunity to do things like eat lunch with his friends. The thought that in Canada he wouldn't even start school until this Sept and then probably only half days for another year makes me feel greatful I live here! He had sports club this holiday and they wouldn't let him stay all day as he wasn't 5 yet, and he is so sad about it - he could have managed the whole day easily. Maybe just 4 is too young for some, they change so quickly but let's not swing too far the other way, please!

My Aug born son struggled with starting nursery at 3yrs 1 week. He stopped sleeping and eating. His whole world became about his intense anxiety about going to nursery and we had to remove him in the end. He restarted nursery at 4yr 1 week and after some anxiety at the beginning, he is now thriving. I believe this is because at just 4 years old he was ready for NURSERY (not school). Staff regularly comment that he's a different child this year.

My son was expected to start in reception at 4 and the head teacher of the school, which the nursery is part of, wanted to move him up into his 'correct' year group after one term of nursery. This would have been a disaster for my son.

We are very fortunate though because some weeks after meeting with the head teacher to discuss the situation, he contacted us to say he had changed his mind and would now support our application to the Local Education Authority for our son to start Reception at 5yrs 1 week (Compulsory School Age), rather than at 4yrs 1 week as would normally be expected.

I say we are fortunate because without the head teacher's support I'm not sure our application would have been successful. We had no statement, no 'professional' evidence to support our request, just a list of circumstances and experience which told us, as parents, that our son was not emotionally ready to start school at only just 4.

This is the very long way around to saying that parents of summer born children should be able to choose when their child starts reception. They should not be forced to send their children to school a year early. We have been very fortunate with our local head teacher but many others are not so lucky, to the detriment of their 4 year old sons and daughters who then must endure school, rather than enjoy it.

The professionals currently involved in these decisions may be superb at their jobs but they do not know our children. We do not make these decisions lightly. Trust parents to make this decision themselves and we will no longer have a situation where there are inconsistencies and unfairness, not just in different areas of the country, but between neighbouring schools as well.

We have a summerborn boy and according to the the DfE we should be able to request he gets a reception start at compulsory school age yet our local education authority and schools under their influence in Birmingham don't fancy following the guidance so just say no!! The DfE should legislate to stop this postcode lottery and arbitrar decision making and make sure individual children's needs are actually catered for! The system is discriminatory against summerborns and the over subscription of schools desperately needs dealing with the whole thing is a shambles :-///

Walkingbkwrm

I am glad that your son has thrived in reception but there is a 5 month difference between an early April born and a late August born. This is a massive difference. My August born son has developed so much in the past 5 months but was certainly not ready at just turned 4. Many parents of summerborns just want the flexibility and choice for their child. :)

Just to go back to the original question.

The system as it is does not allow for many things.
eg
1.You live 1 mile away from the school, but it is your closest school as you live MORE than 1 mile away from other schools. So you loose out on all schools.

1. sibling priority. This is a great thing, up to a point. But I think that if a family moves house out of a set 'catchment area' then they should not expect to keep their sibling priority. Siblings out of catchment shouldn't take priority over a child who lives in the same street as the school

BUT

1. If you were given a school miles away from home because all the schools were oversubscribed, then the least the LA could do is let you have a place for your sibling at that school
2. moving house. There really needs to be some flexibility in the system for people who move between Jan and Sept.
3. allocating 2 schools to one family. I really don't know how you would do this, but the stories of families being given 2 schools at opposite ends of town are rife, and that does not count in an appeal. The LA needs to take some responsibility for this.

I would love to return to a system where if you live in x area you are guaranteed a place at x school. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to balance that with choice to go out of your area.

tiggytape

It IS our absolute right to start our children in school at compulsory school age.

We don't however have the absolute right to request which year group our children enter, that's what many summerborn parents are campaigning for; hence the amount of comments on his thread regarding the unfair process we have to go through to get a reception start at CSAge. Some LA's are still saying NO to every request. Some admissions authorities are making different decisions on the SAME child. Some admissions authorities are asking for evidence some aren't. This is not clear, fair and objective. It's one rule for one and one rule for another and it must change.

I'd just like to point out Section 8 of the Education Act 1996 which states:

“A person begins to be of compulsory school age –

· when he attains the age of five, if he attains that age on a prescribed day, and

· otherwise at the beginning of the prescribed day next following his attaining that age.”

and also...
Reception class is defined by Section 142 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 as:

“a class in which education is provided which is suitable for children aged five and any children who are under or over five years old whom it is expedient to educate with pupils of that age.”

So...why should a child starting school at CSAge be forced to miss a year?!

Fair and equal access...