Scottish Referendum debate - watch with Mumsnet

[KatieMumsnet]

So tonight sees the first TV debate of the Scottish Referendum with First Minister and key advocate of the pro- yes campaign, Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling, leader of the pro-UK Better Together campaign coming together for a head to head debate for the first time.

You can watch live from 8pm on STV and if you're south of the border can tune in via the STV player.

Fancy watching along with us? What are you hoping to see from tonight's debate? What are your thoughts on the campaigns so far?

If you've decided which way to vote, why? And if not, what will help you decide?

Do feel free to share these, and any more thoughts you have

Aw OldLady that's really kind of you. We were on holiday- needed a break before the madness begins

Of course, normal people have holidays. Hope you're keeping well in yourself.

And putting the Scottish economy and political system through a massive upheaval is unlikely to help these people.

It will be difficult in the short-term, but in the long-term, it most likely will. The current government provides benefits for wealthy people. After the initial set-up of an independent Scotland, it has been widely-predicted that taxes will be lower. Scotland also currently pays more tax per head than the rest of the UK. (fullfact.org/factchecks/will_an_independent_scotland_be_better_off-28889 is one source, it quotes Salmond but asserts that his figures add up. There are other sources that pop up on Google though :) ).

I don't think we would have much better luck in the UK if Red Blue Ed were in charge either.

As an aside, I know a few northern English folk who want independence too, I wonder if Scottish independence would encourage other counties/countries/areas to want independence too.

I almost booked a holiday which would have meant being away on the day of the referendum, luckily remembered why "there was something about that date" before I did! One of those absent-minded moments when you know there's a reason why something is important, but you can't quite put your finger on it at that moment in time.

My dad is going to be away but has arranged for a proxy vote that a neighbour - who he knows is also a Yes voter - will make for him. He didn't ask me

It will be difficult in the short-term, but in the long-term, it most likely will.

What counts as short term and long term? Is there going to be a lost generation while everything is sorted out?

it has been widely-predicted that taxes will be lower.

Only the Yes campaign have been predicting this (unsurprisingly). The policies in the White Paper cost money, and you must add in the costs of a new state.

Scotland also currently pays more tax per head than the rest of the UK.

This depends on the division of oil and gas revenue either had 8.2% of revenue (per capita view of oil) or 9% (geographical split of oil) and of course, Scottish people also receive more per head than people in England and Wales, (9.3% of total UK public spending in 2012-13) which is a very important part of the equation. (GERS figures)

Thanks OldLady. I'm the size of a house but feeling quite good, thank god.

Good grief, having said I'm feeling fine my brain is obviously frazzled- This depends on the division of oil and gas revenue. You can either take that as 8.2% blah blah blah...

I think, based on what I've read, that the short-term would be around a decade. It seems like that would be around how long Scotland would need to "set up" as an independent country. But I would be happy to deal with that as afterwards, projections (again, to me) show that we would have a better, stronger economy than the UK.
I think that Alex Salmond, the SNP and most Yes supporters know that the policies in the White Paper will cost money, but we also think it's worth it.

I wonder, because I'm obviously not voting No, how it's seen from the other side. Just curious as I don't know many No voters and the ones on Better Together on FB just call me names and are quite rude when I ask anything! If anyone is a definite No voter, could you answer this question?

Do you not think that David Cameron is scared? From recent events, e.g. him, Miliband and Clegg signing this declaration "promising" more devoluted powers, it looks like he is really worried about losing Scotland, and an important source of income for the UK.

I'm not going to argue about it, I just genuinely wonder.

Disclaimer: I know that the rude supporters don't represent No voters as a whole (and I am sure there are rude people on the Yes side too, of course). They're just the only No voters I can really ask, apart from on here, where people are definitely not rude and childish.

I would agree with a ten year prediction. I just don't think that the future will be wonderful enough to justify that ten years of sacrifice.

I do think David Cameron is scared. If there is a yes vote, he goes down as the PM who lost Scotland. There are a lot of things at risk on both sides of the border.

"It's only those who work in the finance sector, from wealthy backgrounds who will be bricking it if there's a Yes vote."

Plus a lot of working class people such as those who work at Faslane and for BAE Systems at Scotstoun, plus those who depend on them economically.

Thanks Santana just wondered is all! Independent or not though, I will always despise Cameron.

red Has there been a statement regarding that from BAE Systems? Could you link it? Just wondering as I have a couple of acquaintances who work there, but they're voting Yes.

I am not a greatest fan of his either; it really annoys me that I am assumed to support him because I am voting No.

It's really pretty obvious that the military contracts will stay in the UK. It would be political suicide to do otherwise.

I don't assume every No voter supports him. :) I guess it's the same as saying every Yes supporter supports Salmond - I don't particularly like him. It's annoying when people assume that, for either side!

An independent Scotland would only have a small defence force, so we wouldn't need a great deal of weapons. And thank goodness we wouldn't be involved in any more wars such as Blair with Iraq! Won't miss Trident either if we can shift that with independence, too. I'm just interested as to these companies definitely pulling out of Scotland, when quite a few of their employees are Yes voters. I would assume it might deter them from a Yes vote if it had been officially announced, or strongly hinted at by the company.

It's only those who work in the finance sector, from wealthy backgrounds who will be bricking it if there's a Yes vote.

What, cos people who work in the finance sector are lesser people? OH, and plenty of us are not from wealthy backgrounds - I grew up on a shitty council estate with a single mother on benefits. I've worked damn hard to get where I have and I don't particularly like the idea of losing it.

Plus, you do know that not everyone in financial services is a rich banker, right? Any idea just how many call centre and admin type jobs there are around Edinburgh/Fife/Central Belt in particular? According to wiki (first source I could find but figures look about right), FS in Edinburgh employs nearly 35,000 people. According to (Scottish!) govt stats the number of people employed in Edinburgh is 256,800. That's a hefty proportion, and that's before you get in to all the "linked" industries and jobs. It is NOT unreasonable for people to be concerned, frankly.

Re David Cameron, I'm not convinced it's so much the income source loss. I think it's more that no UK prime minister wants to have "presided over the break up of a 300 year old union" as their legacy.

Small defence forces don't equal no wars, though. Look at all the tiny nations involved in Iraq. It depends on who Scotland allies with and what organisations it joins. And of course Tony Blair was Scottish!

Trident is a whole can of worms. You've mentioned you read the White Paper- what do you make of 282?

282. Will NATO members with nuclear-armed vessels be allowed to enter Scottish waters or dock at Scottish ports?

It is our firm position that an independent Scotland should not host nuclear weapons and we would only join NATO on that basis.

While the presence of nuclear weapons on a particular vessel is never confirmed by any country, we would expect any visiting vessel to respect the rules that are laid down by the government of an independent Scotland.

While they are both strong advocates for nuclear disarmament, both Norway and Denmark allow NATO vessels to visit their ports without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons. We intend that Scotland will adopt a similar approach as Denmark and Norway in this respect.

That really scares me. I'd far rather a known entity than an unknown.

I'm just interested as to these companies definitely pulling out of Scotland, when quite a few of their employees are Yes voters.

The employees don't really have a say though, do they?

A lot of companies will downscale their Scottish operations as a result of a yes vote, some will pull out entirely. I'm not sure why this is news to people.

All the central government jobs based in Scotland will go south of the border - why would you have people living in a separate country doing those jobs when you can give them to your own citizens?

My work has a Scottish office and their particular role will move south in the event of a yes vote because the associated risks of having the work done by people living in a separate country are not worth it. Doesn't stop loads of my Scottish colleagues being yes voters.

I must admit, being Canadian, I see a lot of muddy thinking, amongst some yes voters, that was around in Canada at the time of the 1995 referendum. I used to know a lot of separatists who lived in Quebec and assumed that they would continue turning up for work at their federal government jobs post independence. Umm no you're a resident of a different country now, things are going to change.

I wish celebs et al would stop begging scots to stay. It's cringe .

All the central government jobs based in Scotland will go south of the border - why would you have people living in a separate country doing those jobs when you can give them to your own citizens

Not all of them. An iScotland would needs its own HMRC etc.

And what about all of the jobs which will be created, since the independent Scottish Government will need all of these offices too? A good example being the Passport Office.

Myself and DP won't be staying if the No vote prevails. We made the decision a while ago as we don't like the way things are going in the UK, so it isn't a knee-jerk reaction to the referendum result.

Santana I don't see the problem - vessels carrying nuclear weapons will call at our ports regardless, they're not going to nuke us just because we don't have nuclear capabilities.
Why was Scotland chosen to 'host' Trident? Why not southern England?

We have ties with a particular country in Europe, work and culture-related. :) For a while, we were unhappy with the way things had went since the Conservatives came into power. It was bad beforehand, but it got a lot worse. It really scares me that they have voiced a desire to scrap the Human Rights Act, amongst other things.

Even after a Yes vote, it would be a while before everything started to move into place, both sides agree on that at least! I would hope that these businesses, if they couldn't/won't continue trading in an independent Scotland, would allow people to move to keep their jobs (if they were happy to do so) if they continued to trade only in rUK.