Can we have a proper 'woo' topic?

[IndigoBarbie]

Dear MNHQ, I fully believe in freedom of speech and experiences, and as such I go out of my way to assist those who are asking more angelic/psychic etc questions, since this is my real life in a nutshell. Getting sooooo fed up of threads becoming all about others who don't believe and blatantly attacking those of us on thread who want to actively discuss and share and I think a lovely new topic of 'woo' or something you feel is an appropriate title could be provided for us to have proper sharings and discussions.

Well I think there is a world of difference between talking about angels or a spiritual world and trying to persuade someone that they should abandon their treatment when they have something as serious as cancer.

A poster upthread was talking about the thin end of a wedge. That is a very black and white view for anyone to take. For example, some people take echinacea to ward off colds. I don't think there is any scientific evidence that it works but mainstream places like Boots sell it, and arnica. There are things that cannot be explained. I see someone who gives me a bad vibe, you feel that someone is off with you but you can't quite put your finger on why. I probably wouldn't be able to prove that. I also stand by my comment on the other thread that love cannot be proven.

I think that if you are saying everything has to have evidence no matter what it's about otherwise it's a lie or potentially damaging is shutting down debate and shows a lack of ability to apply common sense.

No it's a great example of some arseholes con people. Not all wooo is about money.

Lots of 'psychics' claiming to find lost children, too.

interesting Guardian article

if some people's experience leads them to a different conclusion than yours it does not always mean they are wrong.

Argh! If their experience leads them to a conclusion that directly opposes known facts, it does make them wrong! To reiterate, there's nothing wrong in having thoughts you find comforting, inspiring, etc. There's a whole world of wrong in asserting your thoughts as fact, simply because you believe in them.

Garlic, if it's science you want to talk about can I recommend Science and Nature forum as linked yb MNHQ instead of PRS.. Also can I ask what qualifications those who "kindly" diagnose "delusional" have?

Maryz, I'm afraid I can't link (old iPod). The problem that Indigo highlighted has been a problem for all of the years that I have been on MN. And while it doesn't impact every thread, it has impacted too many, just as MRAs and SN attackers have on those forums. What has happened is that believers have retreated to their respective religions' safe threads. So the frustrated and angry attack the Wooers and anyone who posts on a multi belief thread.

And as this thread and others outside of PRS has shown, many posters are interested in such threads and would prefer to read ideas and even criticisms without preachiness or bile.

But lottie, your bad vibes can be explained! You've put a million years of evolution into developing fine-tuned perceptions, being processed by your brilliant mind much faster than you can form a thought. Isn't this amazing? You are amazing! That's real :) No need for woo - you've worked for a million years to get that skill, give yourself the credit you deserve.

Boots sell herbal and homeopathic remedies because they know people buy it and they make millions of pounds a year doing it. And because it's in Boots, people think it must be legit and above board because Boots are endorsing it, so more people buy it, so Boots stock more of it and the circle goes on. It is not anymore morally right than people who sell 'alternative' Cancer treatments to cancer patients.

I believe there was a small body of weakly positive evidence for herbal arnica in reducing bruising time slightly. Not sure whether later evidence has changed that though.

True Garlic, but what exactly is a perception? Can you see or touch it? Can you prove it exists?

Also can I ask what qualifications those who "kindly" diagnose "delusional" have?

That's rich coming from the arbiter of nasty sideswipes.

Delusional is a proper word with a proper meaning.

You can these days, lottie :) Researchers are measuring & proving them all the time. It's jolly interesting.

Boots doesn't even pay tax! It's hardly a righteous organisation.

Also it's my understanding that when people talk about psychic energy what they are referring to is indeed fine tuning of ones mind that enables it to happen or to sense things.

I'm not saying Boots is a righteous organisation. Rather that the marketing of echinacea is widely accepted and is arguably not damaging to ones health in the way that urging someone to stop their cancer treatment is.

Also I've had hcps advise me to take arnica on several occasions.

Let's all drink I have plenty!

If they're advising you to take homeopathic arnica, they're treating you with a placebo (placebos work, remember, but it's cheaper to buy sugar pills and label them 'Medicine'.) If they're advising you to take actual concentrated arnica, they're trying to kill you. Its traditional use is in ointment, not orally!

when people talk about psychic energy what they are referring to is indeed fine tuning of ones mind - No, no they're not. Fine-tuning perceptions is what high-level security experts do, like Gavin de Becker. Psychic energy's an imaginary thing. I should know, I'm a qualified reiki practitioner I did it to make a client happy

Garlic - what do you mean you did it to make a client happy?

Delusions are MH disorders. That is my professional field, am I wrong to ask what qualifications those that you say "kindly" diagnose people have?

I agree Dione. It seems ironic that some people want proof for everything yet think they know when someone they've never met is delusional.

I did the reiki course & attunement to make a client happy. I'll give anyone a treatment if they want, but I promise I am not channelling the universe's healing energy through the power of some silly hand signals. I'm just making them feel better by being with them for an hour. (I don't 'practise' reiki and never have, btw. Was horrified by some of the teacher's claims.)

Well, Dione, perhaps I shouldn't have encouraged those delusional OPs to call a doctor after all. Maybe I should have left them and their life-threatening conditions to more woo-friendly posters until you came along?

Ooh Softly, I'll have one.

Cheers.

Absolutely not Garlic. You did exactly the right thing in urging those people to get RL help.. I have read some of your posts and admire your strength and honesty.

What I am asking about and challenging is the qualifications and wisdom of diagnosing "delusional" on the Internet. Particularly when it does seem like an insult directed towards people who believe differently to the person who is "kindly" diagnosing it.

Are posters using deluded or delusional to make a diagnosis or as a figure of speech. Because I think it is often used as an expression separately from the actual mental health use.

A bit like if I was to say 'that's depressing'. It doesn't usually, if ever, mean 'that's triggered an episode of depression.