Too late for the webchat BUT can we have a new section in FWR please?

[BOF]

One which IS a safe space for feminists? Where it would be possible to talk about, yunno, stuff from a feminist perspective without dealing with hostile trolls and posters who harangue and derail feminist discussion?

The concept of a safe space is pretty fundamental to feminist theory, so it seems weird that this isn't recognised on MN. It could even be non-googlable and not in Active Convos, like OTBT.

The main areas could remain, and new people to feminism/people offering alternative viewpoints could still post as much as they liked.

It strikes me that this might encourage back some of the excellent posters we have lost, and solve the problem of persistent frustration which characterises the often-derailed discussions.

What do people think?

with kotinka - I used to lurk a lot, and found too much of it useful and thought-provoking to let you all run off to virtual fb Greek island.
and yes didn't that horrible car crash have it's roots in a fb group?

MN is an open website. I would not want to see any part of it becoming closed or pre-moderated .

There are plenty of other websites, or restricted groups in social media, where "safe" discussions can be held.

As said above, MN doesn't have to provide everything. Those who find it does not suit them have plenty of other places to go to.

But BoF isn't suggesting a closed group, merely one which is slightly harder to stumble across.

Unless I've misunderstood...

I'm not interested in Facebook groups. They aren't anonymous, and they can get a bit 'hot house' . MN should be ideal for a feminist platform, but it is absolutely impossible to have a sensible conversation as it currently is. Completely pointless waste of webspace.

Well if that really is all that is being suggested, then it is already there -- OTBT. I thought the extra idea in the OP was that discussion not from a feminist perspective (in the judgement of whoever set themselves up to decide that) would be clled "haranguing", "derailment", etc and disallowed.

OTBT threads disappear after 30 days though.

No Lissie- you've understood. I didn't ask for complete privacy, nor for pre-moderation - just one topic where anti-feminist posts and derailing would definitely be removed if reported. And a place that was less of a beacon for twats on the site.

phew

I do think it's a good idea, although I don't know how receptive MNHQ will be. I know many posters are put off by the trolly goaders and we have lost some fabulous FWR voices because of them.

I think it's a good idea.

I used to spend a lot of time on FWR, and haven't been there much recently, as I got fed up with the trolling. I would join in on this. Perhaps MNHQ can be persuaded to do a month's trial run or something like that.

Not really, kotinka, no. I want to discuss things with people I am not already acquainted with, and I'd like it to be part of my MN experience, as I'm on this site every day, give or take. I don't really see why I should need to go elsewhere when it's something that should be perfectly compatible with a mainstream website which caters in the main for intelligent women.

Hot house, selective, club?
It sounds like you want a safe space for like-minded individuals, so FB might be the best answer. You can be part of a closed group and accept requests for membership.
I belong to a couple, not feminist, but I've had no concerns with confidentiality.
Like OLKN, I've had a few times when I've got into trouble and been called 'rape apologist' and 'handmaiden' and the like on here. A private group would enable there to be discussion without dissent.

That wasn't what I was saying at all, silver. Almost the opposite, in fact.

I do agree that it will take a bit of effort to police - the will has to be there to respond promptly to reported posts, etc, and frankly I'm not sure it is.

Is it really too much to ask to be able to have a little section where MN members are free to have discussions from a feminist perspective in one teeny tiny area of the site?

Why is that so threatening?

If you aren't interested or don't broadly agree with feminism of some flavour or another, then you can debate in the other 99.9% of the site, surely?

They are all brilliant suggestions, thanks kotinka.

Are the current boards not enough though?
Perhaps if MNHQ were quicker on the delete button, would that address the issue of trolls and MRAs?
I just don't see how a safe space would be able to bar posters unless it's invite only.

I don't find the idea of a safe space for feminists threatening at all, it's the logistics of it that puzzle me.
Nothing on MN is private.

It wouldn't bar posters though, just make it slightly harder to find, like OTBT is. Basically I think BoF is asking for a feminist OTBT where threads stick around for longer than 30 days.

It isn't working, silver, because MNHQ have explicitly said that FWR is for discussion ABOUT feminism, and not for discussion BY feminists. So people can post from an anti-feminist postion, as long as they avoid personal attacks.

I don't expect or ask that that should change.

I would just like a small topic within it (possibly with the same sort of thirty day deletion, non-googlability features of OTBT, or the new 30 Days Only topic) which MNHQ could agree was for purely feminist discussion, and which would delete attacking and anti-feminist posts as off-topic.

I know the trolls and MRAs won't go away, but this might be one way to confine them to the rest of the section where everyone is free to debate with them if they wish.

Or perhaps we can have a separate topic for people to post "what about the menz", and start a few threads on it about how hard men's lives are, just to get it going, and then we can concentrate on feminism in FWR...?

re this. It's 2013 and you are having to even have this discussion.