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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
FrightRider · 24/10/2013 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 23:25

Chipping - I've copied and pasted someone elses shit stirring post, it's not me saying I was shocked - I'm saying that the crap has already started with people using it against her!!

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:26

@lougle

I've just looked back through the site stuff threads. There's nothing between May 2013 and now. I've checked the title of every one

I'm not fussed on a personal level - no way I'd be staying up at night to weed out hairy truckers. However, I do think that it is a fair question to ask how the volunteers have been selected and why quite regular posters have no idea that it was even happening.

You know what lougle, we're beginning to think maybe it was deleted to protect the identities of the people who volunteered.

Although this may be bolleaux. It was a HelenMumsnet thing you see.

We will get to the bottom of it tomorrow but we really need to think about going to bed soon

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:27

@RosaParksIsBack

Rowan could someone have a look at that AIBU thread? It's not very nice, apologies if you already are.

I'll see if I can find it now Rosa

MurderOfBanshees · 24/10/2013 23:28

Here's your vol mod thread

What would you do without me? Wink

BOF · 24/10/2013 23:29

Apparently, Anyfucker is going to be the Head Volunteer Mod. I know, I've seen the email Wink.

not really, please don't kill me Justine

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:30

OMG Murder I think I love you

aaaahyouidiot · 24/10/2013 23:30

Yes yes to only allowing name changing after a certain period of registration - I'd say even just two or three months.

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 23:30

MAKE HER A MOD lol

Rowan is sobbing eith joy that you have found thatthread! Grin

ExitPursuedByABogieMan · 24/10/2013 23:30

So I was right. It's for forriners. And blaming Helen Halloween Shock

YoniMatopoeia · 24/10/2013 23:30

I have reported two posts on this thread that are not being very nice about AF, which is pretty unfair in her absence. Not heard anything back yet

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 23:31

"but we really need to think about going to bed soon"

I'm ready if you are, Rowan.

I'm off to Bedfordshire. Night all. :)

Pan · 24/10/2013 23:31

BOF - you like to live dangerously.Grin

lougle · 24/10/2013 23:31

Oh well I wasn't looking for Eagles....

Thanks MurderOfBanshees

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 23:31

Thank you :)

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER · 24/10/2013 23:31

Rosa - sorry. I thought you'd only C&P the first line and the rest was yours. After I posted I saw your next post about that other thread and was very confused?! Thanks for clarifying that :)

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:32

@YoniMatopoeia

I have reported two posts on this thread that are not being very nice about AF, which is pretty unfair in her absence. Not heard anything back yet

Sorry Yoni - you wouldn't believe the size of our inbox. Are the posts still there?

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 23:32

tbf Helen was bu to not title it 'the vol mod thread' Wink

MurderOfBanshees · 24/10/2013 23:32

Right, so who is volunteering for making DS sleep through the night to thank me?

MilllyMollyMully · 24/10/2013 23:32

Bingo. Mother Teresa.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER · 24/10/2013 23:34

Banshee - remind me how old he is?!

lougle · 24/10/2013 23:35

Yes, if you read the thread there was no mention of:

volunteer
moderate
moderation
moderator
ban

Instead, there were flipping Eagles Hmm

Sparklybootedfucker · 24/10/2013 23:35

I've just failed the Twatkins test for femininity

Monty27 · 24/10/2013 23:35

If I was AF I wouldn't come back either. This place has changed beyond recognition since I first lurked and then 'joined'.

The media has MN under the telescope now, which of course, in imho brings on the above ineffectual statement of values (see the OP above). I've always enjoyed MN Tower's posts, but sadly like most things, it feels far too commercial now. And honestly, the adverts, in times of austerity are a cringe. I'd certainly never recommend this site now, after years of loving it. I read an article in the Standard tonight (aka the evening Daily Mail), it read so badly I was cringeing at being a part of it.

Sad.

ClayDavis · 24/10/2013 23:36

Rowan, I've PM'd you the link to the volunteer mod thread. I don't want to link it here for the reasons you've given for thinking that it got deleted.

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