New childcare tax break to be announced by the Government today - what do you think?

[JaneGMumsnet]

David Cameron and Nick Clegg are due to unveil new childcare plans in a joint press conference today, with further detail expected to follow next week.

According to reports, families could be entitled to claim up to £2,000 per child every year from their tax bills, to cover the cost of childminders and nurseries as part of a new government scheme to help families.

The new measures will not be means tested, and will replace the current voucher and allowances scheme.

We'd be interested to hear what you think of these proposed changes, particularly in the light of the changes to child benefit which have been implemented today.

Thanks,

MNHQ

But they have passed a bill capping the welfair bill to 1% for the next 3 years?

So if you have jsa or income support it will stay the same for the next three years?

Im a sahm and recieve ctc that is paying for my share of costs so i think tax payers are paying for my life chpice as i could not afford to stay home without it!

I think tax payers should help with childcare costs.

lljk yes, I am surprised that posts approving of 'measures against housewives' are approved. Like you say, if another poster said measures should be taken against working mothers there would be an outcry. Feminism is about choice people! Choice to be a SAHM or a working mum.

morethanpotatoprints,

Re: "how wrong it is for 2 parents working to expect other tax payers to pay for their childcare"

How do you work out that working parents are asking other parents to fund their childcare? I have been arguing for the income earned by working parents not to be taxed so that they will be able to use it on their childcare. But, it is still money those parents earned; and not money from someone else's hard work.

I just want a tax break to I can spend my own (untaxed) income on my own childcare before the government creams the tax off what is left in my pot. It seems only fair that my childcare, an expense incurred for the sole purpose of me (and DH) going to work, should be subtracted from my net income before my tax obligations are calculated.

What is the objection? Women on here all the time talk about the damage done by people who contract out their children,, who do not "vring them up" because they are working. There aer about 1000 comments against working mothers to one which might suggest as I do that a working mother is better for a child.

I is not factually wrong to call the recent measures measures against housewives and to approve of working parents is not a sin or a mumsnet insult or bad conduct. It is just a different view point give we are working hard to get women into positions of power and not at home, many of us. We all also lobby to get many more men in the home. There should be that choice that he can say I want 4 years at home so get back to full time work.

Indeed today's news is full of the huge rise in full time working mothers of children under 5 and good luck to them . Perhaps the recession will have unintended good consequences just as WWII did when women got out and enjoyed work and children thrived in day nurseries provided by the state. Interesting times.

Most reform whether it's the vote for women or rights to work sadly is usually economically driven by the state rather than being an issue of moral rights. To get the economy moving again you need lots of hard working tax payers and tax paid.

Oh, and I should add that I am perfectly happy for a couple to decide that one of them stays home. I think they should be taxed as a single unit, if they so choose. It works this way in the US. You put your income together and file jointly. Then you mark your dependant and get an bit of a rebate (or whatever it is called) for each. And you have the choice of whether to file separately or individually.

Xenia maybe it's just your age but frankly "housewife" is not a term I would ever use to describe any woman who chooses to bring up her own children. I'ts rather pejorative, can't you appreciate that?

I would call her a mum.

There should be that choice that he can say I want 4 years at home so get back to full time work.

There's nothing, absolutely nothing to stop a man saying that today!

I can't see why people are so up in arms about the term housewife. It was in use for years and nobody was bothered. But now we aren't allowed to say it. And must say SAHM or some other term. Well that is fair enough. But a SAHM does the same thing as a Housewife used to do. And that's a fact.

olgaga - you would call her a mum. Yes, she is a mum. Just like the one who works. She brings up her own children. Just like the one who works.

You find the term housewife pejorative, I find the implications in your post about working mothers pretty insulting.

Viv, I think housewife got swapped for SAHM as more women carried on working after marriage (not allowed for eg my grandmother) but stopped when they became mothers.

I expect SAHM will fade over time too as more people work flexibly throughout to combine childcare and work.

Stix.

Please accept my apology, I got you all wrong. Have re read and it must have been the drugs. I am just getting over flu and was well dosed up.

It's like calling a dustbin man a refuse collector surely. Stay at home mother - 4 long words which still root women in house and home same as housewife. I don't see the different except one is a silly new euphemism for those whose feelings seem to get so hurt so easily. Stay at home parent may be better as gender neutral. I can understand why "non working parent" might annoy fathers and mothers who don't work but look after under 5s and do all the cleaning because it is pretty hard work when they are young if you have no help and particularly if you have 3 under 5 as we did at one point.

We certainly won't call them "mum" (a) because many of us cringe at thje word mum - a class thing (let us not exclude those who are mummies from mumsnet - there must be a place for all classes to feel comfortable here (b) because a woman who works is believe it or not a mother. In fact some of us have done more childcare than most housewives with under 5s. I will have done if you add up the hours from 28 years ago when child 1 was born. I have done more coal face hour by hour child care than most housewives on here just spread over nearly 3 decades.

Anyway the tax breaks will probably be minimal as the Government has no money so I ould not hold our breath for them. They may help those of us who hav e never qualified for a childcare voucher because we are self employed though so that could be of benefit although I expect they will put upper income limits on these too as they are a party which wants to damage enterprise and in effect say to hard workers who do well - awful you, we don't want you in the UK, we only want low earners who pay no tax. If they carry on like this when the last tax payer leaves the country and switches off the light the 50% who are net claimants will find they have nothing from which to claim but at least they won't be jealous of those who are richer, because the richer will all be gone.

Why is there nothing about this on news no detail?

mentioned on my fb and no seemed to have clue what was on about.

Tried too google and kept coming up with 2009 brown wants to axe childcare vouchers,

All I did find was

about new universil benefit

From dfw site.

Support for children within Universal Credit will be provided in the form of a child element. This will be included in a claimant?s Universal Credit award where they are responsible for a child or qualifying young person that normally lives with them. The child element is comprised of two rates; one rate for the first/only child and then a reduced rate for second / subsequent children.
Universal Credit will provide more support for childcare costs. Under current tax credit rules, support towards childcare costs is only available to parents who work more than 16 hours per week. Under Universal Credit, this requirement will be removed and support will be available to parents regardless of the number of hours they work. This will provide an important financial incentive to those taking their first steps into paid employment. It will mean that around 80,000 extra families will be eligible to receive support through childcare.
Universal Credit is expected to be particularly beneficial to lone parents, including those who wish to work a small number of hours."

Also im baffled how this will work out.

use 2examples.

family a-married couple man working mum at home.
man low income so they did get child tax credits, cb
inaddition to housing benefit and council tax relief.

so mans on 18k gross.
he then gets £1000+month benefits on top as hes low income.
he then gets newt amount same as someone on 38k gross.
I know this as know couple who get this and my oh used to earn 38k gross which is about £2300 net a month.
yes the mans paying tax and ni on his 18k but suspect hes getting more back from benefits than what hes paid?

family 2 single mum-so pays no credit no limits to work.

so she takes 6-12hour job

shes under the tax threshhold income tax,
You have to work min 16hours to pay ni contributions.
but gets free 8hours childcare to help her to work.

I dont feel they penalising women per say.

But do feel like they penalising middle incomes who soon will be entitled to no tax relief, no benefits yet they paying lots of tax and ni and everythings rising it feels unfair.

Watching question time on how pensioners should be protected is cheesing me off a bit.

I have bee working mum and a sahm mum

I do think choice is important.

you cant force people back to work if there are no jobs or they cant afford childcare.

Right now cant see and solutions agree benefit bills to high needs to be trimmed but they unfairness is awful.

mam yes, it is all unfair on middle incomes. Work hard, get promoted, just get into higher tax band and hey presto, it's all give, give and no hope of improving your own lifestyle. We will certainly not be voting Conservative, or Lib Dem again. Even my parents who were die hard Tory voters will not be.

There's no detail because they want to announce stuff a bit at a time.

lexyma I believe we are the only developed country not to give some sort of universal child benefit.

mam, that is very helpful.
I heard Iain D-S on Radio 4 the other day (he was very good and genuinely is trying help). He did make the point that under the last Government you could earn £60,000 and still get tax credits,. I suspect they would like those in work not to be having benefits. If that change did occur employers may then have to put wages up (in order to get staff) as a lot of tax credits, housing benefits for those in work support low wages.

I certainly agree that is the middle earners who are most likely to lose out, lose child benefit, perhaps will lose when universal credit comes in.

However it is done savings have to be made somewhere.

Im not even losing my benefit when first announced at conference they mentioned £42,000 figure hubbys 41 but we far from rich we get by.

True we chose for our kids to have hobbies and activities as they enjoy them and think its good for them as schools offer so little extra currcicular.

We cant afford private fees.

we try have 1 cheapish uk holiday a year and 2-3days out as hubby works retail he works 50+hours week no overtime. He works weekends, nearly every bank holiday, worked xmas eve and boxing day so family time is quite limited feel like single parent most weekends when other families are together.

In week sometimes he works long days so kids dont see him at all so both school runs, homework, tea and bedtimes all down to me.
Then when he gets home he has homecooked meal on table and fairly clean house.

Im not worlds best housewife we live in house we outgrown
3messy kids. I have jno grandparent help with kids.
My family over hour away, mil never leaves house and only wants to see 1 child a t a time.

middle child 3 gets free funding this month 15hours which will help
but since september paid 2terms of preschool
since shes 18months paid 1 day private nursery fees with vouchers as its been good fotr her educational development because shes sept born got extra year of childcare to fund and unsure when can afford to start her younger brother hes 2 in april.

We dont own our own home we pay private landlord.
no housing benefot
council tax is fair whack and utilities rising.
We need least 1 car but running car and petrol is high.

we realy are quite cautious these ays rarly go out.
we budget and meal plan but each month im tweaking things .

lower income freinds think we loaded but i would day 40-60k depending where you live and net not rich .
We bit the age bracket going on luxury cruioses or have maximum amounts in our isa. We sometimes dont out heating on as no allowance to fall back on we on our own.

I stayed up late last night watched this week on cbbc1 and janet street porter defended oaps.

All she kept saying was

they paid in all their lives-like anyone hos worked in past hasent.

They largest most engaged voting group.

That brown brought in many of these benefits which now too hard to take away

Yet this next generation of retirees be wealthiest in generations.

But their benefits remain in line with cpi and others rpi which is less.

Their benefits not capped-ringfenced rises

they get to keep winter fuel allowance no matter how rich they are or if they live in spain.

Because its too expensive to means test yet they can do same for cb.

same with free bus passes issued paid bus companies which some hold and hardly use.Sometimes I wasl miles ith toddler in tow as buses so pricey £3 to get from one end road

Free tv licence.

I guess they thourght we small %of electorate.

Not sure how many families will lose.

also the 4 parents on 49k keep theirs

More and more people being dragged until higher rate tax.

yesterday one pensioners minister warned 20-30 group that we may never retire we have no private pensions. probably work until 73 and we would have paid in too.

Im not sure ho to vote. I hate labour,
if I vote ukip then thats a vote for labour.

Going to write to my mp.

Sadly unless we start getting our voice accross then nothing get done,

How do families become as powerful as oaps,

we vote every election.

Those not effected by rises still getting their benefit wont care.
news kepts going on about how we just too wealthy and its only fair.
I know so many people working and non working living life on benefits and financially better off than us.

Today eldest cried as she wasent school dinners today as dident have money on me tuesday to pay for it.

The change is happening with cb nothing we can do.
But guess we can change out vote.

Problem is with media is they either very wealthy or have no one with kids to discuss the matter its like working families dont matter.

When they have families on tv its always the poorer ones. guess makes better veiwing.

If hubby were to hypotheitically quit his well paid job then state be screweed then.Not that he is but we striving and failing.

Until all groups treated fairly then we not all in this together.
new ssaid doubt he touch pensioners this side of election thats 2years away whilst families continue to struggle.

I wish i could pick labour shaow cabinet as whilst they have milliband and balls at top cant trust them.

I dont think ukip wil become 3rd party.
Lib dems have no power.

The bus pass thing is really annoying; we are losing some or all of the cb, depending on dh's exact income this year (& paying a tax rate of 72% because we have 4 kids ; interesting how 50% is too high for millionaires but 72% is ok for families on modest incomes).

OAPs are all entitled to free bus passes, but our kids have to pay £52 a month just for a bus pass to get to school (no school bus so at the mercy of the public bus company who have a monopoly and therefore charge vast amounts).

I calculated that by the time my youngest is through secondary, we will have spent seventeen and a half thousand pounds just on getting the kids to school. They are at a state school, and there are no other options for transport.

And if dh jacked in his job we'd get them free.

It is really quite ridiculous that the Tories have played this game of divide and rule, making out that people on 50k+ are rich. There are so many calls on your income at that level, losing child benefit is a real blow.

Looked at hubbys payslip and wish I hadent.

bare in mind this is combined.

800quid tax and ni per month so nearly 10grand out of 41k is taxed. so its a lot.

our rents and bills approx 1000- per month possibly more.

so thats 12k before paying out food
travel
phone
other bills
childcare,.

we not exactly rolling in it .

what people forget about benefits is say they get 25-30k a year thats net not taxed so they better off.

Even faith doesnt get free bus pass and know someone paying 60quid a month school bus but how else you meant to get them to school?

Also its the higher educated that tend to get higher salaries.

I have student loans to pay back.

I dident buy at right time so can live off the equity of my house.
we wouldent be eligible for social housing.
I dont have wealthy family to give me deposit to buy

we dont have savings they dwindles when kids were born
we ont ahve private pensions.

I cant imagine the 50-60k are rolling in it.
As they will be more taxed.

if you have more then1/2children

childcare becomes very probamatic and expensive.

I want to go back hence why going self employed this year as no ones going to help us. we will get by and hopefully acheive our goals despite the co-alition shafting us.

Really good posts, mam29. It is high time the government (and the people) realise that hard working people are paying too much for too little.

My situation is a bit better than yours, but we have nothing to show for our hard work at the end of the month. Its no wonder people chuck in their job and let other people pay the bills. Ho hum....

Stay at home mums reject 'housewife' tag.

Widow we are all mums. Some choose to work outside the home and pay someone else to care for their children. Some work in the home, caring for their children - not "caring" for, or wedded to, their house!

The term "housewife" dates back to the 1950s when women were expected to give up their jobs on marriage - whether they had children or not.

SAHM reflects the fact that you are staying at home while your children are young and need care - a necessary task which would otherwise have to be carried out by a paid worker.

Nowadays if women give up their job it's for their children, not because society expects them to. That is why most women feel the word "housewife" is obsolete and inaccurate, and why its use is considered pejorative.

olgaga spot on.

Thing is though that if you are in this 30-60k range of working hard to pay the mortgage and bus your kids and yourself to school/work, but having not a lot else to show for it, you can't just snap your fingers and jack it all in to live off the state. You would have to totally change your lifestyle to drop a lot of the things you do that you don't even see as luxuries.

It's the transition that hurts, and when CB/tax thresholds are moved while costs of living are going in the opposite direction and you have to run even faster just to stand still, that is painful and feels unfair because it's inflicted on you even when you were 'playing the game' as the Government seemed to be asking, work hard, pay your share etc.

I'm a central govt civil servant, I don't grumble about what I am paid or my T&Cs, they are very good. I agree that from 2005-10 we created too many non-jobs and had a creeping inflation of the grades of those which existed, instead of moving people through more visible salary spine point progression. However to correct that, we are now on a (2? 3? 4? year) pay freeze, a steep pension contribution increase, pensionable age drift (up), pension amount forecast (down - not that that means anything, as CS pensions for my generation will be paid out of the tax take in the 2050s on, whatever that amounts to). I didn't take redundancy because I believe in the value of what I do. But the government doesn't seem to - we now have zero 'employee engagement' type of strategies, no meaningful training, job/pay progression is a lottery of who can talk the talk, and the internal cynicism and lack of vocation is becoming so serious that I think it should be considered a business continuity/security issue.

If the govt care about childcare so much why do they let TORY councils close LA run nurseries, make them extortionately expensive or reduce their hours. If they want to subsidise child care, do it at the point of use.

£2000 would probably buy you just over a month at a private nursery in the area I live.

There is also a massive shortage of childminders around here. The only ones I could find were a smoker and someone who thought it was OK to slap kids around; found out later the good ones had a two year waiting list.

I worked when my children were little because I had to, but worked different hours to DH and we didn't have much of a life. I think child care or lack of it, dominated my life for around 5 years.

mam29, great posts. Your circs are really similar to ours (except DP has been a SAHD instead of me being the SAHM). I feel a bit tearful actually, I am sick of working so hard and being so fucking broke all the time. DP is starting work next week, we will be paying 2 pre-schoolers in childcare and all the housework falling to us at evenings and weekends so is this actually going to feel like a better life? (not relevant as it is what he wants and needs to do, so my selfish desire to have someone loading the washing machine while I am at work is neither here nor there)

Lilybolero, what do you mean by 72% tax as you have children? Sorry if i am being thick.

We can't afford the heating. I am working from home with a hat and gloves on in a room that is 6 degrees c. My daughter is playing downstairs with blue fingers. We have no money left, my other daughter suddenly has no clothes that fit and is going out in dresses well above the knee until the 25th when I will jump on ebay and buy up whatever I can get for her to last her till summer... and then it will start again. I walk 5 miles a day because there is no way I can afford bus or tube fare once I get off the train. I can't see what else to stop buying or turn off. I have a few things left to sell and that's it.

Everyone around me at work has been made redundant, I am working like a bastard, no one is getting a pay rise, no one is getting a promotion. Where is it leading?