The government is asking for your views on how to encourage affordable childcare

[FrancesMumsnet]

As you may have heard, the UK government is currently holding a commission on childcare, led by Sarah Teather (Minister for Children and Families) and Maria Miller (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions). The commission is looking at how to reduce the costs of childcare for working families, and burdens on childcare providers, without compromising the safety or quality of provision.

As part of the work of the commission, the government is running a consultation process asking for the views of parents and carers, childcare workers, and those with an interest in child development and safety. You can see the details of the commission and its call for evidence here:
media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/c/commission%20call%20for%20evidence%20document.pdf

The consultation is open to all, so do please read and respond directly to the consultation document if you would like to. But we've also been asked to canvass your views more generally via this thread. What are your greatest concerns when it comes to childcare? Would you be happy to see fewer qualifications demanded of childcare workers if it meant more affordable childcare without compromising child safety? Are there any regulations that you think are unnecessary burdens on childcare providers? How can the provision of wraparound care for school-age children be encouraged?

Do take a look at the commission's call for evidence media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/c/commission%20call%20for%20evidence%20document.pdf and post here to let us know what you think.

Thanks,
MNHQ

You can use tax credits to pay for nannies by the way.

Goodygumdrops - how do you correlate no subsidy with the Government's position of forcing people back to work even if their childcare costs twice their daily earnings? If you work PT for NMW, 10-2, 5 days a week, you earn just £24.36 a day, yet Nursery fees (here at least) are £52.00 a day. With no subsidy, how would that work?

And even if they worked FT, their wages would be £45.80 a day, which is STILL less than Nursery fees of £52 a day. With no subsidy, how would a Lone Parent work?!

Can you? I stand corrected. I know you couldn't 4 years ago, I tried!

Not enough in a lot of cases - if you work PT as a Lone Parent, and have one DC in Nursery and two in after school club, you wind up needing to pay out more in childcare costs over the year than your wages and CTC childcare element combined. In fact, you do even if you only have 2 DC's, if one is in Nursery.

Childcare costs need to come down.

The problem I have is that until DS3 turns 3yo and gets the free 15 hours, I can't even break even, I would be out of pocket and unable to cover my rent and food for the DC's.

Tax Credits Childcare element will only pay a maximum of £210 a week towards childcare, no matter where in the Country you are, no matter how expensive your childcare is, no matter how many children you have.

When Nursery fees are £52 a day, and a NMW earns just under £46 a day (before tax & NI), £210 doesn't go very far. Holiday clubs for school age here are £50 a day, too.

You can use tax credits to pay for any form of Ofsted registered childcare - that was the case 4 years ago too.

Couthymow - i dont think the government should be forcing people back to work. Thats part of my point really. In my utopia, I think parents should look after their own kids.

Childcare costs for the lowest paid are actually GREATER than their income just for ONE child now. If you have more than one child and you are low paid and your partner leaves you as a Lone Parent now, you are screwed.

Longer parental leave, like in Scandinavia. Cheaper and better than subsidised childcare.

Rubirosa - All I know is that TC's told me I couldn't 4/5 years ago when I was making enquiries, as it would have been cheaper for me at the time.

Goodygumdrops - I get what you are saying, but for me, I would LIKE to work, theoretically I should be better off than scraping on benefits, and if it wasn't for the frankly exorbitant costs of childcare and housing here in the SE, I would be.

With the combination of childcare, housing costs and low wages, I am going to be worse off in work, yet still I want to do it. I hate being made to feel feeling like a 'scrounger', despite being disabled, despite having 4 DC's to look after alone since my Ex left, despite the fact that I will be worse off.

I love my DC's, but I want to work PT too!

What about children with SN who cannot access childcare?

There is nothing in our area for DS2. I would love to go back to work but I cannot find anyone who is willing to accept him, because he needs 1-2-1 care.

In fact we were part of the Dcatch scheme, which was an initiative to get parents of disabled children back to work. The LA championed it as being a brilliant success. We went to a briefing when the scheme ended, and all the parents involved were saying it hadnt worked.

I have always worked full time, I would go absolutely batty if I was a SAHM (not knocking those who have that choice) My mum as a lone parent worked full time and i do too.

I was very lucky when my children were smaller to have 80% childcare as a tax credit and an exceptional work place nursery (civil servant) and then a brilliant after school club that was originally established to provide after-school care exclusively for lone parents, which then widenned into 'together' families. The after school and holiday club was subsidized by teh local authority and had an extensive school holiday programme that did not cost extra ( I paid a yearly fee on a monthly basis that averaged out the term time and holidays) which took the kids on bunches of trips I could never afford to do on my own.

Then the Local Authority stopped subsidizing the after-school, sold it off to a private company, the fees doubled overnight and the holiday coverage consisted mainly of sitting on front of a wii or traipsing off to a local park.

Similarly we used to enjoy a free breakfast club from 8Am daily at primary school. the opening time extended to 8:15 because of staffing issues (££!) and then a fee of £1 per child was introduced - thats fifteen quid a week for me. £60 a month. not tenable.

It's delightful that the government wants to pay lip service to investigate improving childcare, but the cuts in Local Authority budgets and personal cuts from 80% to 70% of tax credit subsidy for childcare have made it extremely stressful if not vitually impossible for particularly lone parents to work.

To me it's bonkers to subsidise childcare so a parent can go to work to earn a small wage and leave their child with another person who earns a small wage! Financially, it doesn't make sense. Although I wouldn't want the simple alternative that this government may come up with which would be not to subsidise anything and force a parent (probably female) to sah to save some money.

School holidays are funny as they were set up around harvest and working patterns and we want to change them to fit again around working patterns. I'd like to see school hours be worked around what's best for learning and then fit work around that.

I think overall we are a rich and clever country. We should be able to come up with better solutions to modern life than using unqualified cheap childcare to keep parents in nmw jobs. We can't compete with china or india etc. on wages so we should look at other ways we can go forward as a country looking at the quality of life for our citizens.

I think we need to stop saying we can't do flexible/part time/term time working and we should to look at how we can do these things. Might not suit every job but I'm sure there are lots that could be rearranged if there was the will. This would free up more work (albeit part time) for more people.

Oh an absolute no from me in reducing the qualifications needed for looking after children. It is such an important job it should not be done by people who quite fancy looking after baybees but aren't prepared or able to do simple qualifications to show commitment and intelligence in the area.

My DD1 (8 yrs old) has SN, (possibly ASD.no Dx yet...)She's got a Statement of SN, attended a marvellous mainstream primary until now, and in September, she will move to a special school in year 4 because her developmental profile is so at odds with her bright, curious self. I, my husband and daughter, the two schools are aLL happy with this arrangement. HOWEVER, as a staff member of the NHS myself, i view their unnecessary delays, procedures and lack of 'rounded' viewpoint vis-a-vis a SN child, has caused us to refrain from using any childcare till NOW. Hope they are going to change /address that in the AIMS and OBJECTIVES of the Commission.
totally abide by the worries expressed by Vagaceratops, above.
Adding mine:
Why does the system make couples who are married, working and co-habiting fee shortchanged!!?? Surely, DC is going against his Election Promises to 'reward' families! Is this his idea of a reward!!? AFTER TWO AND A HALF YEARS OF SHAMELESSLY SHAMMING AWAY AT WESTMINSTER..(Sorry, didn't mean to shout, hit 'caps lock' to type David Cameron's initials and got carried away with my feelnigs, too busy to look up!)
REWARD families just like the Govt. promised. Less qualifications, maybe, but more common-sense. And yes, if families are what the govt. believes in, make it apparent via ACTION FOR and not AGAINST families.

I think it is worth looking at linking the cost of childcare to the work the parent is doing that it is needed for - e.g. through the childcare voucher scheme. At the moment myself and OH get the maximum amount - £243 each a month from our pre-tax pay - which doesn't seem to match up at all to the £230 A WEEK we pay in childcare for one under 2yr old. If they just made the whole of the childcare cost tax deductable then it would be more affordable - but of course this means working parents paying less tax, and so that shortfall would have to be made up elsewhere....

Of course, for some working parents the cost of childcare may eclipse the amount of take home pay they get. I am lucky that this is not the case for me, but if it was I would still consider working in order to maintain my job/position for the first few years (when the childcare cost is highest), rather than stop work for a few years and then potentially struggle to get back into work, or have to take an even lower paid job as my skills/experience are out of date. But that decision probably depends on the type of work you do and how easy it is to resume that work.

Another thought - I would love it if my employer had a creche on site. I work for a large company with a large office building, and there are lots of parents here who would use it (with the cost being deducted from pay, perhaps). I wonder if there are many employers who do offer this, and if not, if that could be an option to be encouraged? It would make drop off and pick up easier (no rushing as needing to get a particular train) and I would be able to spend lunchtimes with my DS. So maybe there is scope to supporting some employers to provide on site facilities.

How about a childcare tax? Where every parent who does not stay at home pays say 2% of their earnings and then receives free full-time childcare!?

Achillea - I don't want a lay person to look after dd. I want her to be at her excellent Montessori with structure, routine and objectives. She is with my mum the other day, a retired SN teacher - I appreciate we all have diff opinions about what we want from childcare but that's what I want/value.

I don't really want a CM either I have no issues with them and I support the smaller ratio they provide but I can't cope with the I reliability - if they are ill etc I have such limited support - it has to be a nursery setting for me or group care after school

Enjoyed reading all these valid comments so far, hope everyone has replied to the initial post and e mailed the government with their views, I did so this morning and then had a good rant with my mum about it all. The reality is being a law abiding, tax paying, working parent in this country is a mug's game.

achillea - I much prefer my son going into a nursery environment where he is looked after several people who he can make attachments with and who can support eachother. I want those people to know more than just basic childcare - I want them to be qualified up to a certain level rather than just a random other parent.

I wouldn't use a childminder for this reason though I am interested in a recent attachment parenting childminder group started by a friend to help parents find childminders who parent the same way they do.

There is no way I would send my child to be looked after by an unqualified SAHP in their home. I know this might work for some but it's not what I want. How much would you expect these people to be paid anyway?

The more informal childcare is the less reliable it becomes. And the assumption that it isn't rocket science - maybe not a hugely academic profession but still requires great skill, imagination and empathy and warmth - I value dd's NNs greatly and I actively want them to be paid more

Dueling of course there should be stringent supervision of less formal childcare and it should be far more stringent in existing nurseries IMO. It seems that the focus is on how well they fill in the paperwork.

I am coming from a child-centred position, similar to your attachment parenting childcare (a contradiction in terms, surely!). My guess is that if you asked your child (certainly if under 2.5) who they want to spend their day with it will most certainly be with their friend and their friend's Mum and not in the qualified box-ticking nursery setting. Over 3 it might be slightly different as children have different needs at that age.

How would we pay for this stringent monitoring though.

I don't think it's as simple as asking a child who he would rather be with. Just because he might say me doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy being with all the people (And other children) that he is used to and enjoys being with atthe nursery. Plus, if his second choice of 'mymmy's friend' is good then his third choice of 'nursery' is good too. Give me a choice of biscuits and I will say Bourbon cream everytime, that doesn't mean I am going to be upset or damaged because I only got the choice of custard cream or Jaffa Cake.