The government is asking for your views on how to encourage affordable childcare

[FrancesMumsnet]

As you may have heard, the UK government is currently holding a commission on childcare, led by Sarah Teather (Minister for Children and Families) and Maria Miller (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions). The commission is looking at how to reduce the costs of childcare for working families, and burdens on childcare providers, without compromising the safety or quality of provision.

As part of the work of the commission, the government is running a consultation process asking for the views of parents and carers, childcare workers, and those with an interest in child development and safety. You can see the details of the commission and its call for evidence here:
media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/c/commission%20call%20for%20evidence%20document.pdf

The consultation is open to all, so do please read and respond directly to the consultation document if you would like to. But we've also been asked to canvass your views more generally via this thread. What are your greatest concerns when it comes to childcare? Would you be happy to see fewer qualifications demanded of childcare workers if it meant more affordable childcare without compromising child safety? Are there any regulations that you think are unnecessary burdens on childcare providers? How can the provision of wraparound care for school-age children be encouraged?

Do take a look at the commission's call for evidence media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/c/commission%20call%20for%20evidence%20document.pdf and post here to let us know what you think.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Scarred, a bit off topic but are there no after school childminders in your area?

I am sure there are some pretty profitable nursery chains but I really think independent and small chain nurseries are not that profitable once all costs are factored in like staff training, food preparation, locums for holiday cover etc. probably the bigger the nursery the more profitable... But parents probably prefer a smaller site.

Make childcare tax deductible or enable it to be paid in full from gross salary (increase childcare vouchers).

Change the school holidays system. School could be open all year (bear with me here) with a few fixed break periods and some further periods when no holiday could be taken, such as exam periods. Children and staff have a holiday allowance to use subject to approval. Staff absence could be covered as it is now. Puts the whole thing on the same footing as many paid jobs and would stop the holiday industry exploiting school holidays as well as allowing families and staff to manage their lives more easily. Just an idea so don't flame me please.

I agree with others on here; taxation is the key issue that needs to be addressed.

I am currently a SAHM to my 3 children but would like to return to work in the future. But having to pay a nanny's gross salary plus benefits out of my income (i was/would be self employed) is difficult - and hardly makes me feel like my contribution and sacrifices are valued.

I worked between DC 2 and 3, then when I got pregnant so did my nanny. I've received the bare minimum maternity pay but have had to pay out more, including paying tax on my nanny's pay and, what's really got me, I had to pay wages plus tax for more holiday days than she would actually have had (she worked 2 days/wk but there are minimum holiday payments).

I am delighted for her and her family, but thousands of pounds out of pocket. I just don't see how it's fair that the financial burden of this falls so heavily on female workers who employ nannies and I'm sorry but it does put me off returning to work.

"I just don't see how it's fair that the financial burden of this falls so heavily on female workers who employ nannies and I'm sorry but it does put me off returning to work."

You are quite right that it is grossly unfair that childcare costs should come out of taxed income. There is a strong case anyway for childcare being not-for-profit on the basis that the value extracted from working mothers is extortionate. You work (and contribute to the economy/society), you pay tax (and contribute to the economy/society) , you pay (for profit) childcare... what's left for the worker? It's outrageous. My feminist convictions are strongly against participating in this rip-off machine. I get more value for me and my family by not working outside the home.

There are lord of things that can be done. Encourage better systems and availability for part time work.

Encourage more companies, and especially public sector workplaces, to have not for profit creches. This would reduce the total number of hours of childcare needed. Could allow staff to be more flexible, have more time with their children and make going back to work easier.

Pay child carers a proper, decent wage. I want my child to be looked after by the best people. Paying peanuts puts SOME of the best people off this career path (i know there are a LOT of fantastic people in child care, but I also know there are some people who were encouraged into the field as, academically, it was seen as the go to vocation for girls who lacked ability.)

Tax breaks.

More state run nurseries.

Also, stop Nurseries charging by the day, and make them charge an hourly rate instead.

In an area with less childminders than people need, you often have no choice but to use a Nursery. If you are PT, say school hours only, currently you have to pay as much for your childcare as someone who is using it from 8am-6pm, even if you are only using it from 9.30-2.30.

As soon as your hours breach noon, you have to pay for a full day. So while you may be earning £24.36 a day, your childcare still costs £52. Even if you get TC's help, if you work 5 days a week on those hours, your total wages would be £121.80. Your childcare, however, for just ONE child, would cost £260. If you allow for TC's paying 70%, you STILL have to find £78 - 64% of your wages - to pay the top up.

THAT'S why childcare is so unaffordable to many - their low wages.

Maybe if the people USING the childcare were paid a decent wage, it would be a good starting point.

And then there's the two week shut down most Nurseries have in August - often not corresponding to when those in retail or the service industry (usually NMW) are ALLOWED to take time off work.

Everyone I know that uses a Nursery CAN'T take holiday during the two-week shut down, and they have to beg and borrow people to look after their DC's, made harder for people like me who have no family to ask.

And the After-school club never has the SAME two week shut down as the Nurseries.

Meaning that you are often scrabbling around for childcare for 4 weeks of the summer holidays.

And why can't you pay a Nanny with TC's?! For lots of people, it would be the cheapest option. For starters, anyone in the SE with two under school age. Yet you can't pay for it with TC's, so the lowest paid workers often CAN'T go for the cheapest option for childcare.

That's daft if you ask me.

Make the cost tax deductible / out of pre tax income. That would work for me.

Agree with couthymow completely
My ex doesn't work out of choice so just £5 a week from him
I earn just over the threshold for ctc so get no help with childcare costs which work out about £150 a week if I include the £300 a week holiday clubs cost me. Ex won't have them in the holidays either so I have to use expensive clubs all holidays

So tax deductible childcare is the only way to go I think

Night lark, but it wouldn't work for those on NMW or very low incomes. Making it tax deductible would need to be done in conjunction with making it more affordable for lower income workers too, who may be just under the tax threshold, but still needing to pay for their childcare. Or who pay such a minimal amount of tax that it isn't going to really help THEM to go back to work.

If nurseries charged by the hour, the hourly rate would need to increase because the yield would decrease.

In Paris many nurseries are FT only (Mon-Fri, all day) with set eating/sleeping routines that parents must follow at the weekend too (if your baby is consistently out of sync, he/she will be fired!).

I would also say to Sarah Teather - don't tweak at policies here, we need a big change rather than amendments to allowance levels which ultimately just confuse people and benefit only those who have their wits about them.

In an ideal world parents would be able to choose whether or not it suits their community (not themselves) for them to be working or not. Encouraging groups of people to get together to share childcare seems obvious because it allows both those who want to SAH and those better suited to work, to do what they are best at.

Supervision is essential however, and there should be random spot checks, as there are with home educators (or should be). This needs to be extremely robust, and every child should be accounted for regularly. LAs should have to prove they have a fair and effective system for this and if there are any issues they should be dealt with openly and head on so that people can learn from them.

But then how do low paid workers manage, Bonsoir? How do they cover the cost of the Nursery?

And they'd be pushed with my 18mo who refuses to be in a routine despite my best efforts, and him being my 4th DC, the others you could time your watch by when they slept in the day and went to sleep at night, but not DS3!

No, please don't follow the French route, they are absolutely brutal in their system. I'm surprised any of them turn out well balanced at all...

Im not sure i think that childcare should be subsidised for most families at all to be honest. I realise that is probably an unpopular view.

Those that do work in childcare should be well qualified and well paid, it is an important job looking after small children in their formative years.

I like the idea of two years parental leave that was suggested earlier in the thread, but i doubt businesses will, and therefore i doubt the government would support such a thing.

I think the government/local council should provide the builidings and playgrounds and contract out to different providers for the nurserys/after school club themselves. The same site could offer a) a nursery during school hours b) breakfast and after school clubs c) holiday cover. Many sure start nurserys do this (and are based at schools) but this model should be expanded. This would mean that parents could choose as much or as litte childcare as they needed. Currently we either have to pay too much or have to pay over the odds for extra cover during school holidays
I can think of no reason why you should not make child care tax deductable for working parents. It is not a benefit in kind it is a legitimate work expense.

They wouldn't be pushed, CouthyMow, they would just expel him!

CouthyMow - nursery fees are charged on a sliding scale, with the lowest paid workers being highly subsidised.

Looking after young children is an important job but it's not rocket science and it is more important that carers have a good attitude and understand child development, than have qualifications.

To allow more lay-persons to look after other peoples' kids would mean that children would feel less isolated as they will be going to a friend's house rather than to someone who has no community involvement in them.

Childcare at the moment is just another industry where it should be something far more important. Looking after someone's children should be a privilege and not a financial obligation.

Achillea - thing is, not all SAHM's could look after other people's DC's. I have uncontrolled epilepsy. I have my own DC's, and my friends trust me with theirs, but would you want me looking after your DC's when you are at work? Or would you always be worrying that I might have a seizure whilst looking after your DC?

And some might not cope with other people's DC's, who they can't look after in the same way as they would their own.

Also, it would push low paid workers to have no choice in childcare, if they were expected to use SAHM's as childcare, they would have no choice but to 'hope for the best' using unqualified childcarers rather than anything else, as I can see that quite quickly in that situation, TC's help with nursery fees would be stopped, as why pay for a Nursery when you can dump them on your neighbour who doesn't work.

It would be something else to add to Workfare schemes too, well if you want your benefits, you have to look after other people's DC's. Would you want someone unqualified, who is ONLY doing it to keep their benefits, looking after YOUR DC's?

I can understand Bonsoir's point about hourly rates causing issues for the Nursery, I think with the system we have got, where most Nurseries and After-school care is privately run in the Country, and needing to make a profit, rather than being State-run and not-for profit, there IS no real solution other than to build more State-run Nurseries and After-school care. Maybe in school buildings, or purpose built buildings that run a Nursery all day, Before and After-school care and all-day care for school age DC's.

I also agree with previous posters who said that the cost of SEN childcare should be the same as standard childcare - it can cost double/triple the cost of standard childcare. And surely that is discrimination on the basis of disability?

And whoever said about extending childcare to 14 - yes. I wouldn't be happy about leaving a 11/12yo ALONE from 8am-6pm all day every day through the holidays. But that is what a lot of us are faced with, as there just isn't ANYTHING for Secondary aged DC's. It used to be that they would go to Granny's or other family member, now people live too far away, or in my case it's not SAFE to do that (Mother is an alcoholic), so we have no choice.

Those who say tax deductible child care does not benefit those are NMW aren't they helped by the current tax credit system?

achillea - I disagree with every word you say.

What if you don't have any SAHM friends that could look after your DC?