Madmouse's open letter to MNHQ about the treatment of those with disabilities on MN

[madmouse]

Dear MNHQ

I joined MN when I was pregnant with my lovely ds. That heady autumn with bump before such words as NICU, neonatal seizures, brain damage, cerebral palsy, speech delay, special school entered my vocabulary.

That was 5 whole years ago - and all that time MN has been a part of my life. Got a lot of support from my ante- and postnatal buddies and from experienced SN mums. Gave back where I could. Became ill with PTSD, found the MH threads, recovered, started to give support on the MH threads.

Now I've come to the point that the only thing stopping me from leaving MN is that I would let down people on the MH threads. Other than that your (MNHQ) behaviour today has been an eye opener and a bit of a final straw.

MN has become, like RL, a place where disabled people and people with disabled children are not safe, not treated equally and not extended the same courtesy and respect as those without disabilities.

What happened today is just a tip of the ice berg. Day in day out threads appear with the same old theme. AIBU to use this disabled space because my baby's maxi cosy is too big and the P&T spaces are full, AIBU to use the wheelchair space on the bus (those two appear weekly by and large), AIBU to think it's nice to be disabled because you get lots of benefits, AIBU to think disabled people have it easy, AIBU to think I should have a free car too seeing as that I pay taxes.

It goes on and on and on. And none of it is ever challenged other than by a small group of us who do all this fighting in RL too - because it affects us and our children.

There is such thing as discrimination. And you do have a duty to stamp it out. Hand off moderation is no excuse certainly seeing how quick you were to delete 2shoes thread when some of us started fighting back against the endless threads of threads which in turn are copies of last week's threads.

I am very disappointed. And I think you have some thinking to do.

Best wishes

I got my inverted commas wrong, there. Sigh.

I think Higgles post actually proves the whole point well

I think the level of provision for disabled people is as much a matter for robust argument on here as anything else. It was made clear on this bus thread that there is sometimes not enough space for the wheelchair users and the buggies - and without wishing to go back through all the arguments |I was rather surprised that no one was saying that it was the bus companies who were in the wrong for not making adequate provision for two types of people who experience difficulties in using public transport. Poverty, sexism, education - there is not a lot of choice in problems relating to many of these but we don't try to censor comment.

MN has no go areas. disabilities and feminism are but two. if you don't agree you don't have a voice and a reasoned discussion cannot be had.

The bus co are in the wrong overall and the bus designers BUT day to day and working with what we have now (which I have learned from reading these threads disabled people have already fought for) the wheelchair space has been put there for that purpose

I actually work with older people who have disabilities, so I am aware of the problems, and I sit on a board that represents the care sector including PD and LD sectors. I just don't think getting over emotional helps. Logic is the way forward - and a desire to win the "antis" round, not further alienate them.

It is not up to bus companies to fix patterns of thought.

higgle,you work for MNHQ dont you?
Guessing,but your last 7 words look like it to me.

higgle, do you think everyone who disagrees with you is 'over emotional'? Or just women with experience of disability?

re your 17.06 pm thread

There's that classic phrase "logic is the way forward"

anti what?

HiggleMNHQ. It has a ring to it.

we all need to be free to say what we think,except in very exceptional circumstances"

Perhaps, but this is a moderated site where there is a policy about the kinds of posts that will be allowed and the kind that will be deleted. This whole debate is about whether the policy regarding posts about disability and people with disabilities is pitched right. So a blanket 'freedom of speech' response is not really an answer.

I have been surprised in the past about what has been left up. I note that MNHQ was very quick to delete posts on the FWR trans threads in a way that contrasted markedly with the way they deal with disability threads. I was surprised. People with disabilites are just as in need of protection from hostility and discrimination as transgender people.

I'd love a job at MNHQ but sadly I'm just someone who through many years of advocacy in various areas of life know that objectivity is the only way to get an argument across. Sometimes I find Mumsnet very strange - are there really people who think living with a man is wrong? Well, it seems so but it puzzles me. I've been a regular on MN for years, usually to be found in Style and Beauty or the Doghouse.

CustardoCustardoCustardo Fri 22-Jun-12 17:08:23
MN has no go areas. disabilities and feminism are but two. if you don't agree you don't have a voice and a reasoned discussion cannot be had.
I can't say about feminism, but disagree about disability. there is a difference between disagreeing and being disablist.
the unfortunate thing is a lot of people disagree and then use disablist language.
not all of course.

I do think suggesting abled bodied mothers and disabled people have the same problem, is well wrong, you can not compare the 2 .

I have just realised that at no point has MN,and I would hope that it is actually Justine,has come on this thread and said to madmouse and others,that MNHQ,will in future treat people with disabilites equally with others.
And also to apologise for appearing not to have done so in the past.

madmouse,you could ask for what wording you would like,as I may have not got the above worded quite correctly.

In a response from HelenMumsnet to Glitterknickaz at 11.25 am yesterday,Helens response is actually defensive and almost attacking on this matter.

I am well educated and swearing aside, i actually have a great concept of the English language. I Have been on more E&D courses than you can shake a stick at. I have to consider the needs of the disabled daily in my role at work.

Yet i do not know what defines disablist on mumsnet as opposed to an opinion which states something different

I don't know either I don't think the original poster was being bigoted just inconsiderate but it is difficult to work out what is deemed disablist on MN

Of course they haven't, Amillionyears, they never do!

I think it is very hard to walk in anothers shoes. It is hard for people to grasp brains can be damaged in specific areas, that same brain damaged person can function better than average in other parts of the brain.

Someone may look average, they may have physical and mobility issues.

I once lost my voice, people spoke to me in loud voices as though I was deaf, we all may have had temporary issues a broken limb, flu, migrane, etc to have an idea what its like for our body not function at 100%, during those times people get a window in.

i personally have a child with a disability. And while I see that some people have offensive views, which are usually shouted down by the majority, I do totally agree with Custy.

Often it feels like you cannot disagree with some people on certain subjects without being put through the guilt trip from hell and being called disablist.

it is hard having to deal with a disability. But I find the majority of society to be kind and decent, and its not healthy or good for one's mental state to go around thinking that everyone is out to get you and disablist

and now I will probably have caused huge offence here too, but it shouldn't be like that, you should be able to air your opposing view on such things.