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Hullygully · 29/05/2012 09:26
Ok, that's enough now MNHQ
Stop it with the mad deleting.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:27
@mummynoseynora
I am not a prolific poster, most of you won't have a clue who I am - but I have been here nearly 2 years and I have seen some ridiculous deletions / posts left to stand. Over the time period from the start of this year it seems to have gotten FAR more often too.
Justine, I am sorry but some of the things I am reading from you are making me angry! How can you say we like freedom of speech etc (all good) and confirm that posts which call someone on racist / sexist / homophobic / whatever beliefs will be deleted. I am sorry but it shouldn't matter if the post says 'you are being racist' or 'the opinions I am reading in your post could make you sound racist' its all bollocks - Those bigoted words spouted in public, if offended someone could be arrestable!
I feel its important in this country that we call people on ignorant beliefs, if you allow freedom of speech, and allow bigoted posts to stand then you MUST allow people to call on it - if not, then this isn't the site I thought it was and I'll be off... no way am I hanging around to be told off for personal attacks if another poster is in essence attacking a whole group of people
can someone add me to the list please, before I implode!?
I agree with you. Please don't implode Mummynoseynora! Broadly (and obviously taking context into account etc etc) you are allowed to call someone on their bigoted beliefs - you're not allowed to personally attack them...
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:31
@NotSureICanCarryOn
If I think I need to report someone, I might want to do it for a variety of reason, not just troll hunting. So saying 'I am reporting you' certainly doesn't give the implication that you think there is a troll issue, even if you have been strongly disagreeing what that person before hand.
Ok I'm pretty sure we don't have a deletion policy that says if you say "I am reporting this thread" you get deleted. I was just suggesting that a possible reason for deletion might be that there's an implication of trolling, for instance:
OP: My husband's just told me he's my twin brother (or some other similarly far fetched-type OP) YOU: I'm reporting this thread
@ShirleyKnot
Remind me Shirley?
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:33
@Blatherskite
Yes but we don't allow troll-hunting - it's in the guidelines - so if that is what it was, then that could explain it... doesn't have to be a personal attack.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:35
@HoneyDragonWearingLederhosen
Justine are you going to inhibit the 1000 post limiter thingy to stop this thread mushrooming into a load of others like a big delety discussion hydra?
yes will do that now [wonders whether that's such a good plan]
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:41
Does MNHQ think it's ok for me to be called stupid and cliquey and as if Mumsnet is "all about me?", mean and bullying, a person of a certain "ilk"?
Is that all ok because the poster(s) don't use my name? Even thought they made it, and make it, very clear who they're talking about, in the most recent case going so far as to say the topic of conversation we were having.
It goes both ways doesn't it? If there are going to be deletions a-plenty for saying "I am reporting this thread" or "this post makes you sound like a racist" then why should any regulars have to put up with being constantly slagged off because we have the temerity to use the site to make friends?
No that's not OK Shirley.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:58
@Maryz
Are you going to delete the next thread that does it? If we report of course
Ok am not sure of backstory, Maryz, but yes we would of course delete an attack thread on a MN member. Ps why the - how would we know about it if you didn't report it?
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 21:59
@Sparklyboots
Yeh, I've never much cared for that abbreviation thang
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:11
ask the op to clarify something and use the words "it sounds unlikely that X would have happened
say "I'm reporting this thread"
say "Are you new?"
say "Can you clear up a few things op, for example in post 1 you say you are a 13 year old girl and in post 4 you say you are a 40 year old hairy handed trucker, so I'm a bit confused"
Make a categorical statement such as "the police won't take you to Guantanamo Bay just because you over-filled your wheelie bin".
Because all those things have been deleted recently, and the posters told not to "troll-hunt".
You may not have seen the thread but there were a lot of similar points made on it.
Again depends on the context, OP, etc but IMO 4 and 5 seem OK - so long as they are not asked over and over, but 1-3 could certainly be problematic if you put yourself in position of genuine poster needing support but with unlikely tale to tell don't you think?
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:24
This thread is an example. This is attacking a very specific group of posters who are speaking on a specific thread. It is also DESIGNED to cause a bunfight. What purpose is this thread fulfilling? Nothing other than being a bitchfest, inviting other posters to join in and bitch about regulars.
I reported it. It's still there.
I could find plenty of other examples. I don't usually bother reporting such crap to be honest, but in the light if the heavier moderation lately, and the fact that those standing up to the shittier element are the ones getting the big deletion button while the objectionable crap stays, I feel it's GROSSLY unfair.
I agree that it's not an edifying thread but I can see why it was left - it doesn't attack anyone individually - you wouldn't know who she was talking about. It's a thread criticising MN and we usually are a bit reticent about deleting those for fear of looking like we are censoring criticism. Incidentally I can see that the OP has been banned for other unpleasant stuff so it wasn't a case of nothing being done...
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:27
@CoteDAzur
Are you new? (1) Yes. Or no. What do you care? (2) Waaaah, MNHQ delete this awful post!
Really. Just saw you don't believe in free speech anymore and be done with it.
I do think are you new - if asked in the spirit of ie you are a troll is really problematic, yes.
Are you new asked in the spirit of hello and welcome, of course is fine. As ever, context matters...
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:29
Vicar, the list comes from Hully's post "Add your name if you no like the March of the Vanilla Po", i.e you agree that mnhq have got a bit trigger happy.
Pan fecked it up a bit though and it's redundant now really, 'cos we're all on it.
Yeh, including most of MNHQ!
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:35
@Empusa
It mentions Sue by name, and refers to a specific comment by a specific poster. It was pretty easy to see who they meant.
Yep ok sorry you're right, I missed that - yes I think that probably should go as it's just bitchy - as said OP has been banned so I suspect that duty person did that and got occupied elsewhere. But happy to check.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:39
I also beg to differ that it's a criticism of MN - this is a criticism of a certain group of posters who had been posting on a different thread about scones.
And it's this sort of thing that is so frustrating. I know, the poster knows, MNHQ knows, most people reading the posts know exactly who is getting a slating but that's ok because the regulars deserve it.
Whatever.
No, you're right Shirley it should have gone - but as said I imagine because perpetrator was banned it was kind of assumed dealt with.
(but yes a criticism like "no wonder this site needs a flouncers' corner" does sting tbh - feels like quite a personal criticism of MNHQ to me)
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:48
@Valpollicella
The report button should be used within the context of a thread (Im sure Ive seen above that MNHQ don't always link it to another post iyswim) but will delete if reported enough
Please think again about what this is doing to the site MNHQ.
You are driving away posters who are loyal to the 'brand'
I was there for the aftermath of Mouldies. Heck. I know how the the mouldie shit really got to Justine.
Im not sure why this is being swept away quite so flippantly when so many of the same kind of posters are now being driven away.
It's not being swept away Val. I've been here for 5 hours now! If I sound flippant it's just me trying to keep my pecker up.
I agree that the report button should be used within the context of a thread and I know that Helen who's in charge of community management team does too. But I'm not stupid enough to think that everything's hunkydory - clearly there is a lot of frustration here and we need to have a bit of stock take and perhaps a re-calibration on how we are doing things.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:51
@EclecticShock
Would that comment get deleted for breaking talk guidelines?
Nope. As said we rarely, if ever (?), delete criticism of MNHQ.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:52
@NormaStanleyFletcher
How do you know the spirit in which I am asking that and whether I should be deleted?
Like everything else, judgement call... but if in doubt we should err on the side of leaving up.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 22:58
And I appreciate you giving up an evening to listen to us even though sometimes it feels as though we are banging our heads against a brick wall
I hope some sort of compromise can be sorted.
Thanks Maryz - that's kind of you to say.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:00
We didn't - and quite rightly as TSSDNCOP - so everyone continued on the thread feeling there was someone watching and chortling and shit-stirring elsewhere.
And the "scone" thing was brought up by other posters on other threads who had seen that one. And a few really nasty posters (or possibly the same one under a namechange) came on later with vile comments.
And still the thread stayed
Yes, the thread should have been deleted, I agree (for the third time!)
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:02
@SecretNutellaFix
The same thread has been restarted by a seemingly new poster complainig about teh exact same thing.
I have reported.
Ok thanks, we'll look.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:03
@PeanutButterCupCake
I've never been deleted though
Am so tempted...
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:04
No, nor did I Eclectic - but I was just making the point that criticism of Mumsnet does feel personal to me and the staff at MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:11
@lazymonkeyface
Sorry if we are keeping you away from your family. Its difficult because we love it here, and things feel like they are changing and we don't like it, but I appreciate you feel the same way about it.
Thank you (and to AF and HoneyD too) - that's much appreciated. At the risk of sounding a bit soppy I do know it's because y'all care for MN, and of course so do I and the rest of the team here, so there must be a solution because to coin a phrase we are all in this together .
Am off to bed but will be back once we've had a bit of a conflab.
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:12
That would be favouritism, and you really don't want to go down that route. Imagine the fall-out
Tempted to delete, not hand out a badge .
JustineMumsnet · 29/05/2012 23:14
MN need to see the difference between "your are shit" and "what you just said is shit"
There is a very big difference and one is not a personal attack
In general, I agree with this Norma. This is, historically, our position and should be our policy going forward.
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