mn hq, can we have an explanation - jess - and maybe re other trolls in future?

[wannaBe]

I am aware that you can't divulge the means by which you determine whether or not a poster is genuine, predominantly because if you make that common knowledge then posters will know how to avoid being detected in the future.

but jess (long ongoing eleven weeks abortion threads) threads have now been deleted for being a troll, and I was wondering if, given it's the site users who usually report these things, we could perhaps have a bit more by way of explanation?

e.g. when sassysusan was banned, mn hq confirmed that she had previously posted as washwithcare, and users were able to identify.

There has been some speculation that jess was dizzymare, and I wondered whether this was the case?

Also, these threads have been ongoing for over a month now. How is it that it takes quite this long to determine that someone isn't actually all they seem?

Why not close the thread not delete iyswim?

Because by that stage, all the useful advice has been given and all that it turns into is frustration on the part of those who are trying to help

I completely agree with you MaryZ, I think that is a good suggestion for when a thread is going around in circles and all that can be said has been said. That way the OP has been offered advice and support and if they are genuine then it leaves the door open for them to come back with an update, "thank you for all the kind advice - I have contacted xxx and this is what is being done"

No-one important in their right mind thinks you're a bully, MaryZ.

@Pinot

Helen YOU CAN if it's causing upset/strife for regulars. YOU CAN!

But would we then have any regulars left, Pinot?

I agree with Helen actually, it is far better to have a dozen or so angry Mumsnetters than one poster who has her lifeline torn away from her when she needed it the most.

I mean, just think back to the one time in your life when something horrible, perhaps even tragic happened. How would you feel if you posted for some online support and on top of your pain and suffering, you were accused of lying about your situation and your thread was actually suspended whilst you were investigated by MNHQ?

Although I also agree with MaryZ. The amount of trolls around at the moment has made me not bother to post on any threads asking for support so there needs to be some kind of balance agreed on or else those in genuine need are still suffering because of the spiteful actions of the trolls.

If the talk policy was written a decade ago then can I gently suggest it is updated? How about:

We do have to advise caution when posting on threads as we cannot guarantee that every poster will be genuine. If you do have any concerns please do report them to us as we take every report very seriously and will take time to investigate all reports that come through. However there are some genuine posters in real need of support so we do ask that posters be mindful of the vulnerability of such posters and not to post any implication that they may not be telling the truth, reporting all concerns to us instead. We also advise posters never to give out personal details and to be mindful of the dangers of any anonymous internet forum.

Something like that?

@MaryZ

I mean, if someone posts "my next door neighbour beats the shite out of his kids every night, the noise is really getting to me", and ignores advice to do anything about it, you would delete it, wouldn't you?

Very probably because that OP would almost definitely be trolling.

I'm quite frequently shouted at for not "accepting advice" on my own threads - but I do accept advice from people who "get" what I'm asking and why I'm asking; there are always some who dare to post against the mainstream. I usually end up continuing the conversation by PM and exchanging exceptionally useful info with MNers who have the same interests and concerns as I have.

But I resent the fact that I'm not allowed to have such a useful exchange online, on my own threads, where other people could join in and add even more useful info.

And not "accepting advice" doesn't make me a troll. I always try to explain why the advice shouted offered doesn't fit with my own approach.

Helen I'll still be here

But if you closed the thread, if the advice wasn't being taken and it was going round in circles, rather than deleting it, then the good advice which had been given, and the support, would stand.

And again, based on what MaryZ has said, how about archiving some topics such as bereavement, miscarriages and relationships if the OP has not returned after 5 days? That way we don't have to look at it all the time but if the OP wants to update, it's still there for her/him to do so?

Am I odd then that I wouldn't think to turn to MN when at my lowest ebb? I'd choose family, friends or a specific group like the Samaritans/NSPCC? Maybe that's why I don't follow bits of this debate.

@TheRhubarb

I agree with Helen actually, it is far better to have a dozen or so angry Mumsnetters than one poster who has her lifeline torn away from her when she needed it the most.

I mean, just think back to the one time in your life when something horrible, perhaps even tragic happened. How would you feel if you posted for some online support and on top of your pain and suffering, you were accused of lying about your situation and your thread was actually suspended whilst you were investigated by MNHQ?

Although I also agree with MaryZ. The amount of trolls around at the moment has made me not bother to post on any threads asking for support so there needs to be some kind of balance agreed on or else those in genuine need are still suffering because of the spiteful actions of the trolls.

If the talk policy was written a decade ago then can I gently suggest it is updated? How about:

We do have to advise caution when posting on threads as we cannot guarantee that every poster will be genuine. If you do have any concerns please do report them to us as we take every report very seriously and will take time to investigate all reports that come through. However there are some genuine posters in real need of support so we do ask that posters be mindful of the vulnerability of such posters and not to post any implication that they may not be telling the truth, reporting all concerns to us instead. We also advise posters never to give out personal details and to be mindful of the dangers of any anonymous internet forum.

Something like that?

Thanks Rhubarb - that sounds very useful. We'll look at doing something like that once we've got rid of all the bloody trolls

I also think, given what has been said by HQ on this thread, that MN is much more moderated than it purports itself to be.

I feel gagged, that I can't post my honest opinion on threads now, because I'll be deleted for troll hunting.

It sounds like you also have to explicitly tell people not to give money to internet posters, MNHQ. I hadn't realised people were doing that so much.

Pinot, no but I can understand why people do turn to anonymous online forums for support. On here you get very quick responses, often within seconds of posting. You are likely to perhaps meet someone who has been through the same thing and you don't have to worry about not getting your words out, crying or sounding like a fool.

Some of these people no doubt also access real life support but they like the anonymity that Mumsnet affords and the speed of the responses. Also the community and support that Mumsnet offers is legendary and whilst that encourages people to come on here for support, unfortunately it also encourages trolls to try their luck.

Maryz. I didn't mean you!

hathor, I think you are perhaps being deliberately stubborn?

MNHQ have tried several times to explain what is and what is not acceptable. Saying that the poster IS drip feeding is NOT acceptable, but re-wording it to ask them to clarify certain examples IS acceptable and will make others think about what you are saying too. It's not that difficult to grasp.

Is that really very likely?

Therhubarb - what a shame you don't abide by the same guidelines you are so quick to accuse me of being unable to grasp.

I do get what HQ are saying, but I think that there has been a subtle change in policy over the past few weeks (perhaps on account of the number of trolls) which has shifted the goalposts.

Rhubs that's helpful, thanks.
MaryZ I think so too.

RL life is preferable to amateur psychologists is my honest opinion, but I do see what Rhubs is saying.

Gawd :(

I've just had a PM to say that MNers do shell out money like confetti to other posters, so clearly explicit guidelines on use of money are indeed needed.

Grrrrr

I meant RL advice not RL life