Bloggers Specials this week

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

Hi MNHQ,

I wonder if you could tell me the reason behind endorsing/promoting a blog regarding a wife who believes her husband, a convicted rapist, is innocent. I was quite shocked to find it in the weekly parenting news e-mail.

There are a lot of women on MN who have been victims of rape and whose attackers will never be brought to justice. It is incredibly hard to get a rape conviction due to all the rape myths, one of which is women lie and the man didn't do it. I feel it is insulting to the victims of rape and could be triggering.

A couple of months ago you were asked to support a campaign to help dispel rape mytha which you looked on favourably here but endorsing this blog seems to fly in the face of that.

Thanks

There'll be one poor, mortified MNHQer who made a mistake. I trust MNHQ to deal with it properly. They don't get it wrong often and yes this was a clanger but I think we should stop raking over it now. No good can come of it.

Well, if the biscuit-munchers on the Bloggers' Network team are encouraged to THINK before they accept and promote blogs, some good will have been done.

I feel sorry for the blogger, and I hope that she eventually finds the support she needs, which mumsnet is so good at providing, to actually get out of this awful situation and start to come to terms with reality.

Sorry Isla but I think the ethos thing hasn't been dealt with and needs to be. It's not just about procedures, it's ethos too. I just wanted to flag it up, because it hadn't been acknowledged. But as I've flagged it, I'll shut up now, I promise.

I too, hope that the blogger gets the support she needs. That's where MN is invaluable and I hope she name changes and continues to post and get support here.

But it's completely against the MN ethos. I think that's why there was so much shock and such a grovelling apology from Justine (sorry Justine but tbf you did need to grovel a bit).

@BasilRathbone

Sorry Isla but I think the ethos thing hasn't been dealt with and needs to be. It's not just about procedures, it's ethos too. I just wanted to flag it up, because it hadn't been acknowledged. But as I've flagged it, I'll shut up now, I promise.

I too, hope that the blogger gets the support she needs. That's where MN is invaluable and I hope she name changes and continues to post and get support here.

I don't accept that it's about ethos at all really. This was a mistake. Human error. Poor judgement. It can happen.

It has highlighted that we need to tighten up on editorial checks and balances with regard to the Bloggers Network too. I can't promise something like this won't ever happen again because mistakes do occur particularly when folks are pressed and busy, as we often are, but it's not because of the ethos - the ethos is as it always was - we are here to make parents' lives easier and we are anything but cavalier about these kind of issues, honest.

@IslaDoit

But it's completely against the MN ethos. I think that's why there was so much shock and such a grovelling apology from Justine (sorry Justine but tbf you did need to grovel a bit).

Yes, quite. Hence the grovelling apology. [grovel, grovel]

I'm impressed by the apology- it takes guts to hold your hands up and admit a mistake has been made.

@BeerTricksP0tter

I don't think it's an isolated mistake. I think it's part of the whole inexorable slide towards Take-a-break-ified commercialism.

Jently and anyone affected by the issues raised have been caught in the crossfire. Just not good enough imo.

Well it's a shame you feel that way and I'm not quite sure how I can change your mind other than to say that the Bloggers' network is certainly not a particularly commercial venture (that's not to say we wouldn't like it to be one day but it's quite hard to see how at this point) and as you probably know Mumsnet has been a labour of love rather than a commercial success for most of its short life. But we are certainly not infallible or immuned to poor decisions. I'm not sure the Take-a-break charge is fair, though. I'm not sure I've ever even read a copy of Take a break...

Whoever took the decision to promote the blog does need to educate themselves about rape and its treatment in the criminal justice system in this country (most rapists get away with their crimes). They also need to understand how rapists will lie, lie and lie again about their crimes, against all evidence, so protestations of innocence are highly unlikely to be truthful.

I also hope Jently is OK, and not put off posting at Mumsnet, similarly anybody else who was affected by this. It's a very difficult subject.

I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense, Justine, and I agree with BOF that it takes guts to apologize for an error like that.

I would say, I'm a bit concerned that the initial reaction to the thread, and the subsequent reactions some hours later, from HQ, were not to pull the blog immediately. So clearly the decision to promote it wasn't something that everyone could see was obviously wrong, and that did surprise me TBH. I am sure it would not happen twice, though, and it's been really good to be on a thread that didn't end up kicking off, despite the subject being so sensitive.

I really hope jently is ok too, and I hope she knows this is not about her.

Bit puzzled by the MNHQ responses to this. This isn't a "oops, I put the decimal point in the wrong place" kind of cock-up. This is a "Shit, that didn't even cross my mind" kind of cock-up.

Luckily, MN posters have provided lots of material on the boards to facilitate any additional training needs.

Well quite Aye, that's what I"m saying.

It's not a mistake that could be made by anyone who knows anything about the issues surrounding rape, DV, Stockholm Syndrome etc. The alarm bells on that site would be deafening to anyone who has even a basic knowledge of these issues. At MN however, it didn't even elicit a little peep apparently.

But I suppose it's churlish to expect MNHQ to have a culture where those issues are something people are broadly aware of. After all, other organisations don't and MNHQ as the most intelligent parenting site on the net, can't be held to higher standards than others I suppose.

@LRDtheFeministDragon

I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense, Justine, and I agree with BOF that it takes guts to apologize for an error like that.

I would say, I'm a bit concerned that the initial reaction to the thread, and the subsequent reactions some hours later, from HQ, were not to pull the blog immediately. So clearly the decision to promote it wasn't something that everyone could see was obviously wrong, and that did surprise me TBH. I am sure it would not happen twice, though, and it's been really good to be on a thread that didn't end up kicking off, despite the subject being so sensitive.

I really hope jently is ok too, and I hope she knows this is not about her.

It does sometimes take a little while to get to the bottom of things and make a decision. Pulling a blog from the network is not an everyday occurrence and in this instance we had to consider the position and feelings of the blogger involved and talk it through with Elinor, the network editor too. It wasn't that people were thinking there's nothing wrong with this, just that not everyone is available instantaneously.

There's a tendency I think to assume that we are all sitting round a table at MNHQ following every move on Talk and caught in paralysis when it comes decisions (or worse are being blind to the bleeding obvious) whereas the truth is we aren't following everything all the time - there's just too much discussion going on - and often we have to start from scratch on an issue which means to carefully read all the posts, do the background checks on posters before acting. On balance I think it's better to take a few hours and get it right.

I'm sorry, I don't really see how a blog about supporting a convicted rapist required any talking through. I expect this is an area where we differ, and that's maybe the point about 'ethos' that others were trying to make.

I was surprised the immediate response wasn't to remove the links to the blog, because to me it seemed so obviously inappropriate as not to require a big roundtable discussion. I'm not so naive as to imagine you all sitting around table eagerly following every post - despite the amusing stuff about sharing biscuits with the blog team when they decide which rape myths to promote - but I do know individual members of the team often act on their own initiative to delete things that are clearly inappropriate. It surprised me this wasn't one of them, but obviously you and the team don't feel the same.

I think what many might not be aware of is that the BN is a relatively new venture and that the people who work there are (I think) relatively new to MN

It is clear to me - because I have been on MN for years and have read enough threads on this topic - that the blog was borderline for acceptance and certainly shouldn't have been promoted

We have to allow MNHQ time to talk to the staff concerned - who don't work at the weekend I think - and hear their response.

Not everyone at MNHQ will be quite so aware of the issues that surround this topic - I know I wasn't until I informed myself when I first started reading threads about rape myths.

Remember that the general public is well brain washed by the press to believe that rape convictions are passed on innocent men.

Berating MNHQ and the staff fr not being aware of this is slightly unfair. As soon as Justine and Olivia were made aware of this , they stepped in and apologised grovelled and have promised to take steps to prevent this kind of thing happening again.

And mistakes happen. We are all human.

And, yes. I hope jently is ok. She is the real loser in this.

It is worrying that the errors of judgement in approving the blog, then making it blog of the week, the writing of the crass blurb to publicise it, the feeble response from the blog team on this thread - all this speaks of a massive failure to get it on the part of at least one member of MN staff. Sure, people make mistakes and it was obvious to everyone that the moment you saw this thread Justine, you got the problem. Fully and instantly. I guess we're just shocked and disappointed that not everyone at MN towers has that kind of grasp on an issue that is so important for women. If they had, this would never have happened in the first place. It's not a trivial slip-up that anyone could have made; it speaks of a really worrying level of ignorance on the part of those responsible. So I hope that whoever was responsible for this series of errors will take the time to understand why people were so upset by it.

Mme - thanks for explaining.

My intention wasn't to 'berate' anyone, just to explain why I was worried. I understand Justine and the others may well not feel the same, and that's their right. It's just I'd feel stupid if I didn't make the point when it is quite an important issue.

I do take your point about that widespread awareness of rape myths is lacking.

I suspect it is that lack of awareness that leads MNHQ to see this as an isolated 'human error' whereas others such as myself are surprised so many people working for MN all made the same human error of the course of several months (?) while the blog was being evaluated and several hours while different MNHQ people responded on this thread.

I'm not interested in having a go and I am still impressed by Justine's very thorough apology, but if this problem is coming from a lack of awareness it's only right to say so.

See that's the thing MmeL. I'm not sure it is unfair.

Given that MN has so many regular threads about DV, rape etc., and they are such sensitive and political issues, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect staff employed there, to have at least a basic level of awareness of them, enough at least to say: "oops, here's this blog and I think it's OK, but I know there's some controversy about this issue so I'm going to pass it higher on up the chain just to be sure".

I'd think exactly the same about a blog about breastfeeding or any other area of parenting/ relationships/ modern life which regularly raises passions on MN. Outside of here, these issues aren't really known about; but here, they're hot potatoes and I'm just very surprised that staff don't know that.

I'm not berating Justine about it, she obviously got it as soon as she saw it; but I'm questioning why MNHQ appears to be an environment where it's even possible not to get it. It's so basic.

Sorry, cross posted with LRD.

I think we are agreeing BR.

I think as well, we know that MNHQ can take constructive criticism - it's not as if we're pointing fingers at another poster for the sake of it, we're talking about something that we and lots of other women on the site feel strongly about.

Justine clearly got it instantly.

Yes, I see what you are saying.

At the same time, it does bear remembering that MN went from not having a blog network to getting dozens of applications. At one point there was a waiting period of many many weeks as the BN staff caught up on the backlog.

I don't know about the assessing process, but I presume with that many blogs to look at, many were perhaps not looked at in such great detail. And sadly, this one slipped through.

Perhaps this is something that needs looking at, but I know I saw a few threads on the BN at the time with people pressing for an answer if their blog would be accepted.

I do know that this blog and one other blog that has raised my eyebrows, and I did mention the other to MNHQ, but did not report this one (which I now regret, as it would have saved Jently all of this).

I presume that although things are reported to MNHQ, it is the person who is on duty who has to make that decision - do I try and handle this myself or do I got to the boss - and we all know that going to the boss is a last resort.