Top Talk topics
Most popular
Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.
Please create an account or log in to access all these features
Add post
Watch this thread
Save thread
Start a new thread
Hide thread
Hide shortcut buttons
oldqueenie · 08/11/2011 22:56
are we allowed to carry on discussing this?
JustineMumsnet · 10/11/2011 09:52
Hi all, We've given it a lot of thought and feel it would be best, on balance, not to rescind DBF's ban.
We do appreciate that her admirable passion to protect dogs' welfare lies behind her posting style but however passionate, we do ask members to refrain from personal attacks. It's one of our few rules but despite many deletions, several warnings and a previous ban DBF seems unable/unwilling to follow it.
The Doghouse needs to be a place where everyone - however naive or misguided their ideas about dog-ownership - can come to receive support and advice, without being pounced on. Our aim is to make parents' lives easier and that can only be achieved if people refrain from personally attacking other posters. We'd be grateful if you'd report any examples of personal attacks as we will delete them and suspend the membership of any members who repeatedly make them.
We will be creating some permanent content (based on lots of your wisdom) around issues of dog ownership and breeding that come up so frequently.
Thanks everyone for your input - it's not been easy but we think it was important discussion to have.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 16:35
Hello. A personal attack is an attack that is personal ie an attack on the person, rather than her views.
In poncey Latin, that would be an ad hominem attack.
So....
Fuck off, HelenMumsnet... is a personal attack
HelenMumsnet, you are an idiot.... is a personal attack
HelenMumsnet, you are ugly... is a personal attack
HelenMumsnet, the way you're trying to explain what a personal attack is is fucking rubbish ... is NOT a personal attack (though not very civilised)
Hope this clarifies thing a bit.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 16:49
@SeeLyon
Rofl
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 16:57
@BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability
That wouldn't be a personal attack as it stands - because it's saying the opinion the poster holds is idiotic, not that the poster is an idiot.
But t'would depend on the context of the post/thread.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 16:59
@GalaxyWeaver
There is no point self-policing a forum if no-one bothers and then when someone does, and a poster ends up getting banned, whining about it.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:03
So only if MN agreed that the person you were talking to was being stoopid?
ha ha! And no.
Calling someone stupid is a personal attack, even if they ARE stupid.
Calling someone's opinion stupid isn't a personal attack unless it's obvious the poster is trying to get around the 'no personal attacks' by putting "opinion" in their post.
Generally speaking, people who genuinely think someone else's opinion is stupid would say "because X or Y" and engage in the debate. Someone who was clearly just out to provoke/attack might post "Your opinion is stupid" and nothing else.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:04
@Rhubarb0
Look, it's simple. It's like saying to a child "I don't like the way you have answered me when I asked you to tidy your room" rather than "You ALWAYS say no to everything I say! You are impossible!"
If you call a person an idiot then you are implying that everything about that person is idiotic, which is offensive. If you say that the person's opinion is idiotic that what you are saying, essentially, is that the person's opinion on that topic is idiotic. You are not saying that all their opinions are that way or that the person itself is an idiot.
It makes it much less offensive as you are focusing on their opinion or behaviour rather than on them as a person.
Fucking hell - who wants to fuck the giblets off a duck eh?
With you all the way, Rhubarb, but then lost you at the giblets
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:05
@Maryz
I would like to point out that using Helen's logic my "comments like that make you sound like a pompous ass" post should definitely NOT be deleted.
Can we presume that:
"you sound like a right bitch"
"my sister would say that only right bitches do (whatever the poster has done)"
"if someone said that to me I would know they were a bitch"
"in my opinion it is a very bitchy thing to do"
are all ok .
I'm going to think out my insults very carefully in the future .
Nope. See my previous post about people trying to get round the no personal attacks rule by rearranging words and putting "opinion" in.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:07
Simple :)
Exactly. Though of course we are all perfectly reasonable and wonderfully civilised adults engaging in intelligent debate
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:10
@ChippingInNeedsSleep
GalaxyWeaver - why do you feel the need to report posts that aren't aimed at you? It annoys me when people report posts that are aimed at me. I'm an adult, I can decide if I am offended or not, it's not anyone else's business. (I did thank the people on the thread where someone said something 'offensive' to me as they did it with good intent, but I was happy to let it stay and asked MNHQ to leave it there (which they did)). Why do you feel the need to interfere in an exchange between other posters?
Because we ask posters to report posts that break our rules, ChippingIn. Please do take a look at our Talk Guidelines
We say : "Mumsnet is, on the whole, a lightly moderated site that works well because it is largely self-policing.....That said, we will remove posts we consider to contain personal attacks, to break the law and/or to be obscene, racist, sexist, disablist or homophobic ? once they are brought to our attention. The quickest way to let us at MNHQ know about a post (or thread) that you think should be deleted is to report it."
We also say: "We'd appreciate it if you'd use the same courtesy when posting messages on Talk as you would use when speaking to someone face-to-face. Please do bear in mind how difficult this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing all of us could do with, it's some moral support."
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:13
How about "your mum" type posts then? They're not aimed at the person in question?
What, as is "Your mum is ugly"?
Are you my DS3's mates?
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:14
Cos it's not homoism, is it?
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:16
HelenMumsnet - why is 'Fuck Off' a personal attack? It's an instruction.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:17
@HelenMumsnet
[/quote]
Or maybe that's a question for the Friday Night peeps?
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:43
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:45
@GrimmaTheNome
Yes - e.g. the way SGB can induce apoplexy but IME never insults an individual, and (AFAIK) rarely gets deleted.
Think it's fair to say that SGB has had a more than average number of deletions.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:51
@LeBOF
Oh, we log EVERYTHING.
That was your 42768th post, LeBOF....
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 17:54
@LadyBeagleEyes
You may be able to, LadyBeagleEyes, but lots of other people may not.
Our Talk Guidelines are there for a reason: we want Mumsnet to be about reasonable, reasoned, smart, funny, passionate debate, not about who can post the most insults.
I'm going to take the stats to that boffin maths thread and get them to work out, in percentage terms, exactly how rude I am
You really want to know?
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 18:04
@mjinprechristmasfrenzy
But the problem with this Galaxy is then the person you are having a blazing row debating with, thinks you have reported them, when in fact you considering reporting posts to be generally beneath you, and its extremely frustrating when you want their views to stand to be seen by everyone.
One point that's worth making here: when a post is reported to us, we do aim always to look at it in context on the thread - and to check the rest of thread for other posts that might break our Guidelines.
So, if Poster A posts, "Fuck off, Poster B" and then Poster B posts, "Fuck off, Poster B" but only Poster B reports Poster A's post, we will delete both PAs (and any others we find).
It may also interest you to know that many, many reports come in from people who aren't involved in the PAs - they're just reading the thread or posting but not getting into the row.
You should never assume that it must be the person you attacked who reported you.
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 18:06
Nope, a PA is still a PA, even with a
OliviaMumsnet · 10/11/2011 20:28
@MmeLindor
@UrsulaBuffay
HelenMumsnet · 10/11/2011 20:28
Yy to only deleting if the PA-ee reports the post.
Go Marcus!
OliviaMumsnet · 10/11/2011 22:52
Hello, yes, thank you he did. I now have a house full of cake Don't be worried, know you're not a stalker.
Tap "Watch" to get all the latest updates
There are no more MNHQ posts on this thread