Man-Bashing, Bannings, Criticisms, Rules, Questions - Answers & Opinions please

[bobkford]

After reading the site for a few months, due to my girlfriend using it (lurking usually), I decided to express my thoughts via a little animated short, and yesterday I joined up and posted a link to it here. It was soon removed and I was banned. Hmmm.

I won't post it again. You can find it on YouTube if you search 'Mumsnet No Menz' I don't think it was offensive. It was critical of Mumsnet in a humorous way... is that why I was banned? I looked in the rules and can find only 'Talk - all human life is there' and "Our policy is to keep intervention to a minimum and let the conversation flow. Having said that, we will remove postings that are obscene, contain personal attacks or break the law."

I don't see how the former is true if light-hearted critiques of Mumsnet are not allowed, but more so, my video was not obscene, did not contain any personal attacks or break the law' It did however raise some points, which I would honestly like Mumsnet or Mumsnetters opinions on. Please don't be too defensive (or indulge in 'personal attacks' of course) I think Mumsnet is on the whole a force for good, and one my partner and I may be seriously grateful for if and when a baby comes - but I also think it is not perfect and should not censor criticism. Such as

1. The site is called Mumsnet, but it is subtitled By Parents For Parents. Yet fathers are at best a token presence here, as most have realized they are not free to debate on issues where they find themselves in disagreement with a woman/women. Men are constantly mocked and ridiculed - in the AIBU section for example so many threads ask 'AIBU to be fucked off with my useless husband...' and women line up to say 'your husband sounds like a total pillock, throw his dinner in the bin' - reverse the sexes and the man would be labelled a misogynist bully and shown the door. If women found a website where men talked about their partners like that they would be horrified. The website moderators do nothing to confront man-bashing, so men leave or end up banned if they begin to complain.

1. I am not a Men's Rights Activist, nor anti-feminist (my gf is a feminist) but anyone who does not label themselves a feminist has their card marked. Any man that discusses an issue and does not agree with the 'feminist line' on the subject will be likely be labelled a troll and soon banned Hardly 'all human life is here'

1. As my video said I DO think its strange or inappropriate that there is a feminist section (and quote a dogmatic one if I may add) on Mumsnet, where so many regulars of that section proudly claim NOT to be parents.

It seems strange that a father on a parenting site can be banned for disagreeing with a (childless) feminist, about parenting issues, or gender issues, or many things. And yes, I have seen many virulently anti-male things in that section, yet it's virtually off-limits to even some moderate feminists (like my gf) because she would disagree with some of the rad fem positions and get abused/banned. It also seems to serve little purpose because discussion is not welcome there, only agreement with the feminist view on the matter. My feminist gf feels the same way, the members should welcome a chance to debate, even if they have done it before many times, as they are 'ambassadors' for feminism, and there are people reading.

1. I am not a father yet, but hopefully I soon will be. I don't want a Mumsnet AND a Dadsnet - I'd like Mumsnet to be more even handed with both sexes, or if thats not possible just admit its a site for mums/women and say men/dads aren't allowed. I'd much prefer the former of course. I want to do as much parenting as possible when I have children, and would hope I would be as welcome as any mother would be at Mumsnet, come the time I need advice help and support.

1. And finally, banning. How about an explanation when someone is banned? The men's rights activists were quite obvious, and I suppose could be banned if 'here to cause trouble' - but then again why couldn't a father who also believes in men's rights activism post here at a site for parents, unless he breaking a rule? Is this site only for people with one set of opinions? I have read the site's originators say that the site has no party line, all voices are there - is that really true? Is criticism, even done in an allegedly humorous way like my video, or this post, unwelcome? Am I now unwelcome because I've returned after being banned? I have heard regulars say that they would like to know the reason why someone got banned, I think it would be useful too.

I hope that isn't too long, and that I don't come across as a 'trouble maker' - As someone who may be needing Mumsnet or similar soon, I'm very interested in asking these questions and raising these criticisms, hopefully constructively.

This comment on the anti-misandry 'mumsnet sucks' thread is magnificent:

"The virulent stench of repugnance is thriving there. Mumsnet is for most part just a pile of human scum."

(Works best if you imagine it shouted by an insane American televangelist).

Bearcrumble Oh god now that image is stuck in my head!! I've now got a crazy evangelist in my head screeching about nests of vipers, and telling me to heal myself

@ Bearcrumble

or the Rev. Ian Paisley in his younger days

Ag custardo, very droll. and mercifully brief:) unlike dick's rants.

message emasculated by mumsnet.

i thank you

My reply to OP -

1. Unless a poster reveals gender in the post, I have no idea if poster is male or female. I dont mind what the posters gender is - I like discussion irrespective of gender. I personally cannot remember if posters are male of female unless the name suggests it is obvious.

I find AIBU to be rude and therefore I dont usually post in it. I do not like the men bashing but nor do I like the swearing, the disrespect or the general rudeness which abounds there. But I respect that others enjoy that type of arena and so I am pleased it is there. (Though I wish I could automatically hide AIBU permanently).

Likewise, I dont usually post in Dadsnet (or gransnet) but think both are essential forums. And I would go there immediately if I thought that someone there could help. My opinion is that if you don't like the forum, get out of Dodge! - post in a forum which suits you - there are plenty to be had on Mumsnet. By the way, I do not like the word "Mum" but this site has to have a name which will appeal to its target audience so " Mumsnet" is not really a big deal.

2/3. Feminist section - is especially aggressive in tone and response. I am not a feminist and I am not anti feminist either. I beg to differ that only men get flamed for their views - it is women too so in that sense that section at least delivers equality assassination! I stay out of there too because it is way off my radar.

1. I am not a father, I never will be. But I DO want a bespoke forum for fathers. Like i want Brownies and guides for girls, and boys brigade, cubs and scouts for boys - because we ARE different . I think that the essence of dads (or grandparents or feminists or dog people or bereaved folk,...whatever) is superb when it is distilled because that is when you can relate more to the opinion volunteered. In specialised forums you can find experience and advice precisely on the point you are interested in. Sometimes women just want a female opinion and sometimes men just want a male opinion. Nothing wrong with that at all. I would HATE a homogenized forum.

1. It is always useful to know why one has been banned from something. I do not think that mens' rights activism is, of itself, a reason to be banned (- I see for example, plenty of support for fathers for justice among women.) But to go off and make a video ribbing the site (however humorously - and humour is wholly subjective) does seem to me to be rather biting the hand that feeds, does it not?

You can hide AIBU as a section, btw. Just go into customise.

bit disappointed young laddio hasn't popped into Dadsnet inorder to round up a posse and storm the gates of those man-hating rabid lesbian types in the FS.

Thanks Pan, - still comes up in last 15 mins though, and I use that a bit when I am prowling about at this time of night.

Yes, get a gang. (When i was a kid lads were always in gangs. I wonder now if it was a just a safety in numbers thing in respect of the girls....

Well, he seems to have been visiting every other corner of t'internet forest - what's wrong with us? We're here, on-line, hardened web-warriors (no sniggering please) and primed and ready to go!

ah jamez is on one of those links bless him.

i love that line about how there are some posters who are "not only not heterosexual but not even parents". what a scandal, gay, childless women being allowed to talk to 'normal' women. they'll corrupt us all you know! we'll all be rabid feminist lesbians soon if jamez and his crew don't come and save us.

i do not think of myself as a rad feminist by any chalk, even doubt whether i am a feminist at all at times, but having read the shite stuff that's 'out there' and the seeming lack of conversation, never mind argument, i'll stay here thanks.

i cannot find a counter argument for feminism, at all. it's just bile and anger directed at women, isn't it?

i thought it was directed at bitches ?

I dont think they are giving very good arguement for anything they are saying. Its just hatrid towards women, very dull.

no thats the thing entirely, i am not a feminist and i do like a good revolution and so was heartily intrigued as i watched dans video - which in turn inspired me to do the awesomeness that was my own video - i think you will agree it is worthy of cannes?

How dissapointed i have been with the level of argument on his anti mn fb forum - totally pants - and there is no intellectual evidence at all - now, i don't know why exactly, i looked at his art, the controversy, the forums etc he art.. - which was ver good btw, and decided that this person must have a certain ..umm..standard of intellect - whether one agrees with his views or not. i was willing to listen to his. but blimey o'reilly, it really is just women hating in the guise of inequality towards men.

i am starting to think serious serious loon and wonder what i have got myself into tbh

wont be the first shitlist i've been on when he does a poll a-la moldies, i might be more impressed

awesome!!

how many carbs in cobra?

Are we converting you Custy?

converting me to snake? is this some nasty euphemism?

Coverting you to mumsnet, as you are here alot, please keep up

been here since 2002