If you dislike "little monster" T shirts please read this

[bobbybob]

A shop in New Zealand called The Warehouse supports a Positive Parenting Programme. It also sells "little monster" and "little devil" type T shirts.

I complained that I thought that was a bad fit from a corporate point of view.

They have responded that "it sells well, especially in Auckland and the far North". The buyer also responded that every one else sells them.

I countered that the areas they sell best are also the areas where child abuse is more common, and that not everyone else claims to support Positive Parenting.

She also accused me of having no sense of humour, which I was prepared for, but I think a little outside the remit of a call centre employee.

What do I do next, and does anybody here fancy joining the crusade, even though it's little ol' NZ?

Yes, Georgina, I was referring to the reactions and expectations of other people. My dds aren't that clever!

Do you not think that other people would see a cute child in a funny t-shirt, rather than thinking that the parent was making a deliberately negative statement about the child?

Hmm... in my experience though, reactions of other people due to what they're wearing don't happen - certainly if you're talking pre-school/toddler/baby. I can't think of one instance where it's actually happened.

Now, I get dagger glares from a woman at my local music class because my ONE year old can't sit still and wants to crawl everywhere, and once (gasp) TOUCHED her 18month old gently on the arm during class (and yes, she's actually making me feel quite stressed about going). But he's never worn any slogan t-shirts there . So I would be inclined to think that some people are just knobs, regardless of what clothing your child wears...

Although I do confess to being a slight clothing nazi over skull & crossbone t-shirts/army gear or mini-hooker outfits for pre-schoolers... Each to their own, eh?

(oops, sorry... is thet word "knob" still allowed?! )

oh please its a tshirt!!!!

i know you feel strongly about it, but could you not put your energy into something more effective?

lol at GeorginaA about some people being knobs regardless of what clothing your children are wearing

So, PP proponents who are also anti 'monster' T-shirts...

Would you put a T-shirt on them which read 'Angel' ?

I mean, we sometimes describe kids like that, and if anything, the T-shirt would create a positive self-fulfilling prophecy...

But if anyone watched your kid / baby playing up big time they'd think you were rather warped.

I think the point is, then, that all this is related to 'humour' in a live and let live world.

Well, no I wouldn't actually hub2dee

i don't like these shirts either. they also reinforce sexist stereotypes - the "little monkeys" are invariably for boys and the "little angels" are invariably for girls, at least ime.

good article on this very subject recently here . i agreed with every single word!

That's a great link, bossykate, thank you. It sums up pretty much what I was about to say re the 'humour' - that basically it's a joke at your child's expense. We have a rule that we don't treat our children in a way we would find unacceptable ourselves, and as I wouldn't want someone putting a shirt on me with words I don't understand and having a laugh about it, we don't do it to the dds. And I'm aware that sounds snotty, but it's a principle that matters to me.

Ditto the angel thing, even though I saw some goreous babygrows with wings on them.

Actually, Next have some jeans with 'angel' across the backside on them. On the adults they look cheap, but if someone needs a load of blokes looking at their arse to get self-worth then that is up to them. What is really scarey is that they come in age three. Slapper chic for pre-schoolers is truly scarey and that is where we seem to have ended up.

Anyone on this thread been watching 'The House of Tiny Tearaways'? That poor little child on there last night gives a pretty graphic example of a child that's been labelled as 'trouble'.

Oh, then it's a great chance to break the sex stereotypes, bossykate.

Marina, you know you want to click 'add to basket'... don't ya...

have you read the article i linked?

Oh yes. Had read before.

I'm NOT saying I would go for this, or that I agree, but I think it is a personal form of self-expression...

I mean people wear the most foul stuff IMO... I'm anti label, anti-word generally... I just think that if someone finds its amusing, then live and let live (within limits).. it's a bit like discussing black humour, or comedy which teeters on the edge of acceptability...

for Hub2Dee

Nothing like a circle.

OMG - has time been messed up now? Is it like Dr Who? Will those horrible bat things appear?!

The child doesn't mind; he can't read the t-shirt.
The parents don't mind; they see the humour and the affection in the t-shirt.
Most of the rest of the world doesn't mind; they don't give two hoots what someone else's child wears.

The article bossykate linked assumes that the parents are dressing the children in these t-shirts to laugh at them, and puts the children at the butt of a joke that they can't understand. I don't believe that this is true - most of us will call our child "little monkey" in fun at some stage, and the t-shirts are just an extension of that.

WWB - am still laughing at your "evil little sh*t" idea!!

I guess the bottom line is I see it as being disrespectful.

Is it disrespectful to call your child a little monster as you're playing with him or tickling him? I don't think so, I think it's an ordinary, affectionate thing to do, and I truly can't see the t-shirts in any other way.

No, WWB, as I said earlier your meaning becomes obvious in your voice and body language, although I think you do have to be careful as negative names can stick. But I do think the t-shirts are open to a negative response from others, as well as possibly re-inforcing bad ideas that may already be around concerning a child - maybe I've watched too much 'Little Angels', but it astounds me how parents label their children and then look out for behaviour to confirm their negative ideas. And I do agree with bossykate that it's largely boys, already more likely to be labelled as 'trouble' by society, who get the most derogatory things on their clothing.

Hmm...tricky as I can see that the sentiment is usually meant to be affectionate, however I wouldn't choose to put my child in one, and positively cringe if anyone refers to my dd as "trouble" or "little monster". If the same person always refers to her as that I intend to say something. Also, at the extreme end, my mother used to teach with a teacher who regularly called her pupils "you useless waste of space", and who thought my mum was weird when she took her to one side and asked her not to refer to children in such a way. She truely thought my mum was strange...

I've noticed two themes;

1. "live and let live, each to their own, personal choice"

2. "complain about something more worthwhile"

I've not really invested a lot of energy in this. I've asked some people on t'internet what they think. Nothing I've read here or heard from the company has changed my mind, just as nothing I've written has changed anyone else's mind. What does surprise me is that they are best sellers when even the people who are harmless mostly wouldn't buy them because they were tacky.

So yes, each to their own, and I am going to invest my energy into something more important - My ds.

As a slightly irrelevant aside - the customer service lady at HO did tell me she had a "big, big, big girl T shirt" and would buy one for her other fat friends (her words). Given the polarity we have seen here, she was about the worst person they could have put onto me.

People who think they are harmless!

Is this for real?? I personally don't like the t-shirts (though mine have had 'cheeky monkey' ones) but I can't see that they do any harm at all.

I've said to mine 'ooh, you little monsters' or 'horror bags' - it's affectionate! You know like, 'you little tinker' or 'mr mischief' - don't really see the difference.