Bugaboos and London buses

[jem1969]

Usual first time parents pram dilemma...Have to say that am drawn to the Bugaboo along with half the population of SW London. The woman in John Lewis said she'd never seen one on the bus but I find that hard to believe? Anyone happily go on the bus with one?(unfolded obviously and not at rush hour. Thanks

Have succumbed anyway and ordered the bugaboo- sand and chocolate brown- will be like a big chocolate bar- yum
Promise I will try and be a considerate bus user!

Jem - well done bugaboo is great pram i love it good luck with rest of pregnancy...maybe see u on the bus]
ur colour combination sounds scrummy[wink

Scottishmummy - I'm N10 too! No doubt we'd be passing every Bugaboo user on the streets and wondering to ourselves 'is she ...?'

It's not the bugaboo's fault - it's the weird concept that buses should be designed for adults and possibly for people in wheelchairs but not for children in prams.

I have never never never understood the whole "you may have to fold the buggy" thing. Do grownups get told "you may have to sit on each other's knees at busy times" or "you may have to leave your bags behind at busy times"?

Small children travel in prams. That's how they move. Why bus companies think it's a massive favour to allow a child in a buggy on a bus is beyond me. Redesign the buses to let us all get on - if the bus really is full then fair dos but if it's just because one other parent has had the audacity to get on a bus first with a child in a pram then that's ridiculous.

Imagine a parallel situation "sorry love, you can't get on - we've already got one elderly lady on here" or "sorry mate - we've already got one hoodie on board".

I travel with a bugaboo btw - it doesn't move too well down the smaller buses (the wheel nuts are just half an inch too wide to get down the aisle but you just have to get on the back).

margoandjerry- yes totally agree a pram is a baby sole mode of transport, and it is difficult nad inconvenient to fold most buggies not just bugaboo.

preferential access for wheelchair users is another shocker - the spirit of the DDA id to facilitate access for a wheelchair but not in preference to another individual. it is unfair to ask someone with a pram to vacate the space fora wheelchair if the pram was there first, if i try to get on and there is a wheelchair fair enough - no problemo , same as if the space is already full. i do object to policy that if a wheelchair arrives the pram must vacate^

Live in Central London and have had an older and bigger Bugaboo frog for three and a half years and use public transport all the time. I've never had to fold up my Bugaboo on the bus but sometimes have to use the back door as the aisles on the small buses are a bit narrow for the wheels. On the rube, I don't always use stations with lifts, escalators fine but old tube stations with stairs are another matter. If you need to know tube stations with lifts, get hold of a copy of the disabled access map available at each station or online.

I have a Maclaren which I hardly ever use - not the transport issue - it's just very hard going if you're doing a lot of walking around London. The small wheels are not very forgiving and my arms are knackered after half an hour of pushing that thing around. Bugaboo glides along much better.

I'd have to disagree with the view that wheelchair users shouldn't have preferential access. If I was on the bus with my pushchair and a wheelchair user got on it would be easier for me to fold the buggy up and have the baby on my knee - not convenient at all especially as I'm usually loaded down with shopping but it could be done. Or would the wheelchair user have to fold the wheelchair up (might not even fold up) and sit on someone else's knee to save me the bother?

Or did you mean 'vacate' as in leave the bus? That would be a bit harsh I suppose. As I said though a pushchair can be vacated and folded more easily than a wheelchair.

on the tube, not on the rube

i do not agree with preferential wheelchair access policy that currently exists in london buses, as it stands if u are already on bus with pram and a wheelchair user requires access then policy is u must vacate even if u were in first. i am contesting it is unfair and against spirit of DDA to implement preferential access, the act states reasonable and fair provisions must be made. So in essence equality of access

a pram is a baby only mode of transport, as is a wheelchair the only mode of transport for its occupant

i was asked to leave the bus bout week ago for wheelchair user, despite fact i was there first, and had already paid fare

I don't live in London so am not sure if the layout of buses is different to the ones here in West Midlands. Most here are kneeling buses so pushchairs and wheelchairs can be wheeled straight on and there are fold up seats near the front which make room for buggies/wheelchairs. Are they the same in London?

I've only encountered one wheelchair user when using the bus and there was room for both of us. Surely it would be possible, albeit a lot of hassle, for a buggie to be folded up and the baby/toddler held on your knee? A wheelchair may be the only way that person can get around whereas a baby/toddler can be carried in a sling or a use a smaller/easy to fold pushchair.

I suppose I would not feel comfortable knowing that a wheelchair user could not get on just because I was there first. I would try and make room before having to get off and walk though so can understand why you were annoyed! I would also try and avoid rush hours if possible!

but why does the baby make room for the disabled person, not the hundreds of adults who use the bus every day?

Because they've designed the bus badly but that's no excuse.

Imagine the fuss if businessmen were treated like this - whereas with buggies it's usually just mums who get treated like second class citizens.

to clarify my position

i have no isue with wheelcahir uswser accessing the buggy/wheelchair space if it is solely being used by able bodied able to stand/weight bearing adults, as they can go alternate parts of the bus, stand in the aisle, or go upstairs.wholly appropriate no problem

my issue is if the space is already in use by a mum and buggy, as i said london bus policy is the mum has to vacate- even if she were there first

why should a wheelchair users needs take priority over the mum and buggy...does the wheelchair need to get to work/social/leisure commitment's before and in priority to someone else.do their travel needs take precedence?if so why

if i am waiting on the bus and it arrives and the buggy space is full that is unfortunate/inconvenient/how the cookie crumbles so wait for next bus then...i don't expect someone to be evicted for me

the dda makes no provision for preferential access it does make provison for equality of access and reasoanableness when considering access issues to services/buildongs etc

consider this if u were queueing for cinema/theatre/restaurant would u let a wheel chair user have priority access to that service and take ur spot..is that equality

imo, there is no such thing as positive discrimination- its all syntax still discrimination

I found the following on the Transport For London website. (I haven't been researching this since my last post btw, just been away from the PC til now!)

From TFL website

Buggies
Low-floor buses are designed to allow buggies to remain unfolded in the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely. If somene in a wheelchair wishes to board, and the wheelchair space is occupied by standing passengers or buggies, standing passengers will be asked to make room lease make sure that buggies are safely positioned within the designated area. Unfolded buggies cannot travel in the gangway.

Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space. If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board, and the wheelchair space is occupied by standing passengers or buggies, standing passengers will be asked by the driver to make room if possible, buggy owners will be asked to fold them and put them in the luggage space or keep them by their side.

If you have a buggy, you should be able to board any low-floor bus unless (in the driver`s opinion) it is so crowded that there is no room for you to travel safely. You will only be refused admittance when it is absolutely necessary. NO ONE ALREADY TRAVELLING WILL BE ASKED TO GET OFF THE BUS. (my capitals)

So if you were told to leave the bus then you could report it to the bus company. As it says in there and as I said earlier, buggies can be folded - you have the choice. Wheelchair users do not and as they can only travel in that designated space then, yes, they should have priority over that space.

And margoandjerry, your point about businessmen makes no sense at all as AFAIK business men are not in the habit of pushing their stuff around in huge trolleys and even if they did, my point still stands and the wheelchair gets the space. The baby doesn't make room - the pushchair does.

Anyway, I have no idea why I've pounced on this point as I have no crusade on behalf of wheelchair users and must apologise to the OP for derailing the thread

interesting...i got chucked off bus in preference too a wheelchair user i was there 1st
no dialogue from driver just told told to get off...i did

Heh, you're here! Yeah, bus drivers are a pita sometimes. I got chucked off once because the driver said I had the wrong ticket ( I didn't), he wouldn't budge, it was a packed bus and everyone was tutting. I got off to find an inspector (there happened to be one nearby) and he drove off without waiting! I was seething but stupid me let it lie rather than complain.

bectheneck, asking me to fold my buggy is effectively asking me to get off the bus.

The scenario would be this: someone asks me to fold the buggy, I put my bags down on the floor and take my (20lb) 7 month old out of the bugaboo, I then put her on the floor of the bus while I lift the seat bit off the wheels, I then put that on the floor while I fold up the wheels and carry them to the front where the baggage gets stored, I then return to collect the seat bit and put that where the baggage gets stored. I then pick up my baby and hold her (unsafely) on my knee (not how I travel in a car with my baby so not sure why it is ok in a bus). When we get to our stop do all the above in reverse.

OK so I have a bugaboo which adds an extra layer of complexity but the basic point remains. Still don't get it. Why don't they ask all standing adults to get off the bus so that the buggies can go in the gangway and the wheelchair user can go in the space provided? They have a weird fire safety obsession I know (got told off once for standing in the gangway with my buggy because a very very old man was sitting where the buggies go and I wasn't going to get him to move) but I can't imagine the risk of fire is greater than the risk of a crash in which a baby sitting on someone's knee would be in great danger.

It's just a weird situation where the neediest bus user is given priority over the next neediest bus user and everyone else doesn't have to do anything, lift a finger, give up their seat on the bus, anything.

There have been several threads about this including one woman who was told she had to fold her double buggy and hold her 4 week old twins despite the bus being empty.

PS, in case you are wondering, I have a bugaboo as it is the only pram which fits in our super-small lift (including a Maclaren) because you can lift the handle upright IYSWIM and I live in a fourth floor flat so I'm not a 4x4 driving, huge pram wielding smugaboo type!

agree with margoandjerry