Dealing with shame popping up

[Duckduckgoose24]

Hi!

I struggled with a appropriate title but I was reading the thread about watching men masterbate and it's made me want to ask.

I too am one of the many 40 something divorced women who is having a really great and liberating time of it, discovering sex on my terms, doing and seeing things I'd have never done in my marriage.

I struggle though with this feeling of shame, that just pops up now and again. Like I'm bad for enjoying it and I have a moment second guessing myself. Places like this topic are great as it reminds me that it's all okay. I follow and listen to certain content creators and that assures me it's normal and healthy to want sex, to want to experiment, push a few boundaries.

Can you have your own internalised madonna/whore complex?

Not sure what I want really, but just wandering if any one experiences the same?

What else pops in my head: They're sex people Lynn!

Maybe I'm sex people. Maybe that's okay.

DDG: I'm sure there are loads of people that don't ever feel that sense. I do from time to time. I do wonder if the people with no sense of that shame are living without the light and shade that comes with those feelings?

There's something enjoyable about knowing you really shouldn't be doing this, and the earlier version of you would never do it, but that you'll carry on, get over that, and enjoy fully having acknowledged but walked past that feeling.

I never feel any shame. I don't understand what FoD means about light and shade either, so maybe I'm just lacking in depth 😁

Since the end of last year we've been going to swingers clubs - I love the acceptance, the down to earth-ness, and the absolute absence of shame. And I've accepted that we're sex people 😂😂😂

Where do you think that feeling comes from? Early experiences, family, society, or completely internally generated?

Not that I think British society has moved on a great deal, the way things are now. But I'm 46 and grew up parroting the same misogyny as my peers, that if you have sex and you're a girl - slag, boy - legend.

That's where a lot of it starts.

And then becoming a mum, I certainly lost myself and I think that's where I'm feeling it a bit. I'm a mum, I ought to not be doing any of this on my time away from them.

Even though my life away from my kids is my own. You see it in other parts of mumsnet, anyone says they're having a casual fling and invariably someone clutches their pearls and says 'what about the children!'.

I went to my first club a couple of weeks ago. I've been feeling equal parts excited about it, and also working through feelings 'seediness'.

I agree though, the scene is one of the most inclusive I've seen. It's really refreshing. So I'm maybe happy being sex people, Lynn. I'm certainly having the best sex of my life, finally.

They’re sex people Lynn 😂

I’m in a similar situation to you - early forties, left a terrible marriage 6 years ago and having great fun exploring different things with my current partner. I don’t feel any shame at all I feel like I’m making up for all those years I could have been having a much better time!

I know if I were found out as a “sex person” in the community I live in I’d be vilified. I’m pretty selective about who I’m a sex person with and I seem to be getting away with it so far.

It’s not so much that I’m having sex that I feel guilty about, it’s the time I’m not spending investing in the family; both as breadwinner and home maker. The risk I might embarrass or shame my children and husband (long story) if I were found out. That I might mess around with someone with an sti or a woman-hating, murderous psychopath that would leave me unable to provide for or protect them.

I wonder if that’s a very female kind of guilt or if men experience it, too?!

I get what you are saying

sometimes if I’m out with the hub and we are on a walk he will encourage me to flash him or strip off for a bit.

I still get the “this is mad feeling” but at the same time it’s liberating and turns him on

I’ve just gotten to enjoy small kinks between concerning adults. As long as you aren’t hurting anyone it’s all good

When my wife and I first opened up our marriage to others, there was a sense of scandal that we are doing something we shouldn't, which was odd as we'd both been in open relationships before, but the fact we really enjoyed being with others both separately and together soon put paid to that.

It was a good feeling, that naughtiness, but we now enjoy the almost normalness of intimacy with others whilst married.

You never know what goes on though, I suppose. Maybe part of the shame is thinking you're the only one who's got this secret side to them.

Maybe I'm not the only one who's doing this in my circle?

Being at the club there were plenty of couples who are people's family, neighbours, friends.

That thread about masterbation made me think a bit I suppose, as she thought of it as a kink, as I have a guy where we do that together. It felt really scandalous to share myself with him, but we both get what we want from it, it's fun, it's safe, the flirting is top notch etc I really enjoy it.

I just hope I don't die and someone looks at my WhatsApp. Or maybe they do and they realise I died happy :)

Interesting. I'm a bit older than you, into my fifties and I definitely grew up hearing that that slag/stud double standard was bullshit.

My kids were also (technically!) adults by the time my marriage finished so I'm not in a care providing role any more so I don't feel any guilt about not physically being there to do stuff for them. (Although one still lives with me, which means I have to occasionally come up with excuses as to where I'm going!)

Looking back, I think I lost myself a bit in my marriage, not in being a mum.

Oh yes, since we started exploring that world more, I find myself looking at everyone and wondering, are you a pervert? Did you have a threesome this weekend?

(Pervert meant in a light-hearted friendly non derogatory manner! Maybe I have absorbed more of a sense of shame than I think. Maybe I'm reclaiming pervert 😁)

I actually for a while had my Whatsapp chat between me and my boyfriend called "don't read this if I die" 😂

Good thinking!

Yes, maybe it's just part and parcel of the British psyche. And some are more liberated from it than others.

My advice would be as I have managed to do my own thing for the majority of my life whilst having a loving relationship and equally loving family life is to ignore what other say and do in respect to your question about shame. I say shame on them for saying or thinking that it has nothing to do with you. Look at your own situation for once! What do you do that is so righteous!

The minor naughty stuff @Stephy1886 describes and a recent thread about going knickerless are important to us all and we should enjoy these little moments. They genuinely hurt no one.
Most years there is a Thread about outdoor sex which we like. Not much reported this year, awful weather for it.
Whereas a Threesome thread described a disaster, extra woman would not touch the man, she wanted only the woman it split-up the original couple.

We should be proud not shamed.

We live in a male led society where from an early age, young women are often taught that “naice” girls don’t and heaven forbid, it’s worse if you enjoy it. This misogynist message is so loud that some women begin to criticise others with the same man based attitude.

Ironically, many men who make the “rules” are the same ones who want to have sex with you, but only on their sexist terms. Before l get shot down in flames here, l am not referring to all men.

In the words of KD Lang “free the hounds of chastity”.

In short, feel no shame, embrace your sexual side with pride.

Historical societal values have a lot to answer for. I was brought up that I should remain a virgin until I got married and that I should only have sex with my husband. I don't have a husband but enjoy sex. I did the one night stands at uni and learnt that sex with a regular partner is better for me.

My concern when I die is not about messages, but the whole heap of sex toys that I own. Although, if I'm dead, I won't feel any shame!

So long as you're happy doing what you're doing and who you're doing it with and it's not affecting anyone else. Then maybe you can self soothe yourself with that thought.

I forgot about the sex bag full of toys! Yes, it's true that I wont feel shame in the firey hell that I might be off to when they're discovered by whoever is clearing my house out.

Thank you all, it's been a n interesting chat and I'm feeling more confident about just being me. I've learned what I'm comfortable with, conveying my boundaries, and getting what I want.

Being sex people.

The irony being that I'm sure this side of me my ex H would maybe have loved to have seen and be part of, but he was part of the reason I wasn't.

Hi @Duckduckgoose24

As a married man that was the question I wanted to ask from your initial post which I thought was just so honest.As to why it takes divorce to create the change.

There does appear to be a lot of women some who honestly post on here who are increasingly finding their sexual awakening post divorce and it’s seems post 40.

I do worry that my wife is reluctant to unlock her full potential and the pressure to be a mother and a wife is connected to some shame of enjoying being a sexual being.

It’s there when the stars align so it’s a mind thing and I do everything I can to facilitate that environment. Hopefully divorcing my ass isn’t one of them.

I don’t believe men have the same pressure.I not given much thought to how it effects me/men but then I suppose that’s the answer right there!!

In my case, there were underlying issues that I won't go into which contributed to our demise.

I recall telling him that in order to get to the point in the day where I might want sex for pleasure, rather than feeling it was an item of my to do list, I'd need more support in the day - mental and practical.

He didn't react very well to that, he struggled to recognise the mental load and what I was suggesting seemed mad to him.

So maybe asking her, what does she need or how does her day need to go to feel like she might want to receive some pleasure, just for her. Maybe offer to only for her to receive initially, so she's not thinking that she'll have to recover and then sort you out (another task!) which of course is what you want in a healthy sexual relationship, but maybe to remind her how great it can be?

Thanks for replying and apologies if it appeared I was after specifics.

Ive picked up some great advice on here. I think when we had our first bump after the kids I thought I was doing more than I was. getting my head around the mental load was a big bonus and I do think that sorting me out was as you say just another task in a list of tasks.

moving to sex for us not for me was a big mindset change for both of us. To understand I didn’t just want sex I wanted connection our little adult escape space . I love the idea of a pleasure based session for her, getting her to relax into it would take time but would be worth it. I do wish she would ask for what she wants more and have more confidence and I am hoping the 40+ factor works in our favour.

The sex people of mumsnet are a supportive bunch x

Can you ask her in an indirect way? Might be a bit confronting face to face initially.

I have tried different ways of approaching it but I think that it’s her issue with prioritising her own pleasure that’s the bit that’s difficult. I fear in attempting to take our love making to the next level (together 20+ yrs) I am running the gauntlet of doing the exact opposite of what I want and making her feel she isn’t enough which of course she is.

Your initial post and subsequent comments really hit the spot for me I do believe she has as you asked an internalised madonna/whore complex. That this has come from a combination upbringing or social conditioning ( nice girls don’t do that) and I have not fully given up but that any change has to come from her now and she has to want it.

We are hopefully a million miles from divorce but I do think she’d be forced to look internally more and I do believe she would find it if we did which is a little sad but I am in for the long game.

II hope you continue on your journey and that other women read your posts and are inspired to leave the shame behind and reach for what is possible.

OP please could I ask which content creators you follow /watch? I have felt like this a few times - I'd like to watch and listen to some of this stuff! Thanks 🙂

Hi, not loads as I'm conscious of people seeing who I follow - shame again!

I love Scotty Unfamous.

Follow and have listened to Come Curious podcast.

Ruby Rare.

The Sex Doctor (might be one for you @Anthonysimagination)

From there, you'll start to pick up others as they share who they like as well.