Is Monogamy Unsustainable

[Strawberriesandcream3]

I have been thinking about this for some time and wondered what others views were on this topic. Is monogamy becoming less common for modern day relationships/marriages? With the option of open relationships and the generally higher incidence of unfaithful partners, is polyamory a more sustainable solution to relationships/marriages?
I’ve often thought about sex out of my marriage but have never acted upon it because we both entered into a monogamy relationship.

I think it's about self-control, loyalty, honesty, love and respect.

In the past, people managed to commit to someone else and go without sex with anyone else, or abstain. I think people today are more hedonistic. They have different values.

People want a loyal, monogamous partner despite being promiscuous themselves.

I don't believe that the human species is naturally a monogamous one. Probably better equipped for polyamory. However the church have had their hands on "societal norms" for so long we swallow the guff about couples having to be locked together in unison for ever. All thats does is lead to stress and jealousy. Im sure we would all be better off if we were all just more open and trusting.

I think that monogamy works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. I think part of the problem is that many people do not consciously choose monogamy - they do it because it's the socially expected behaviour.

I don't think we will see an end to monogamy, but I would like to see it become just another relationship model, rather than the only truly acceptable one.

In terms of polyamory being more or less sustainable...poly has its own challenges, and to be successful requires a lot of deprogramming from what one might expect from a relationship, or what it should look like. I know quite a few poly people, and whether their relationships are healthy, stable and sustainable depends much more on them as people, and their ability to communicate and know their desires, than the relationship model itself.

Been with DH since teenagers, now 50s. We have a very good and adventurous sex life between ourselves. So monogamy can work. Having said that I agree that we have been prescribed this model and for most it is not sustainable. I wish we all had more liberal attitudes.

22 years in and still monogamous.

I do think naturally we are wired for polyamory though.

I've always struggled with monogamy. I get very frustrated at the restraints of an exclusive relationship... being attracted to other people but knowing I wasn't "allowed" to pursue them.

Now, post divorce, I'm blissfully happy in a loving open relationship. It's not always easy and requires brutal honesty and respect, but we've realised what works for us. We're still learning and evolving but I think we're doing ok...

Ive found people to be very judgmental so I've learnt not to share too much with family and friends. They just don't get it. There is still that deeply ingrained societal norm which dictates that we all need to find our soul mate and stick with them for our whole life. I just don't buy into that thinking anymore.

The Ethical Slut is worth a read to examine why polyamory is a great option for many people.

@PinotPony - I share similar views to you. Again, I would never discuss this with family and friends, I don’t even talk about sex because it seems fairly taboo amongst many and I get the opinion that many women don’t have sex with their partners/husbands often enough anyway, so to be at the opposite end would potentially make others see me in a different light and I don’t think that would bode well with others views.

I know that my views are very different now and although we have a standard monogamous marriage, I don’t think it would be the type of relationship I’d want again.

@PinotPony - Is there ever jealousy involved in your open relationship? I’ve often wondered how people deal with this part.

Indeed. Many of my married friends barely have sex with their husbands. I can't decide if they're disgusted that I'm having sex with more than one person or secretly jealous! So now I keep shtum and just smile if asked about my love life. 😉*
*
"Is there ever jealousy involved in your open relationship? I’ve often wondered how people deal with this part."

Yes, there can be and I think that's unavoidable. But we talk about it and find a solution. It all comes down to being honest and open, agreeing our boundaries. We've also talked extensively to other poly couples, read up on the subject and attended workshops dealing with insecurities in poly dynamics.

I'll say "Eurgh, she's half my age, really fit and hasn't had 2 kids. I feel insecure about you playing with her". He'll say "Sure, she's hot and I want to sleep with her but what we have is so much more than that. But if you are unhappy I won't do it"

And it works both ways. There's a guy I've really wanted to play with for months. Chemistry is off the chart! But DP thinks he's a knob! So I've told this guy I can't play because my DP isn't comfortable. It not always having your cake and eating it!

But having that security and openness, knowing that we can both admit to wanting other people whilst knowing that neither of us would pursue it without permission, almost makes it easier to say yes. So, the vast majority of time, we do say yes.

It's easier in group settings. I love seeing him enjoying himself with a girl (or two!) while I'm having fun with her partner. Play dates away from each are harder to navigate so, at the moment, we only do that with people we both know and trust.

Depends on your point of view. I subscribe to the adage: "two's company" and I definitely wouldn't want to share a relationship with anyone but the person that I'm with. For others, a polygamous relationship works fine. Horses for courses.

I'm the complete opposite to @PinotPony (and this implies no judgement on her.)

Sex for me means love. I haven't had sex with anyone I've not been in love with and I suspect that having sex with someone would (unless it was absolutely awful) make me fall in love with her (I'm male fwiw). So, monogamy feels very natural to me. What PinotPony describes would just be too difficult for me. I would end up getting hurt.

Whether or not it's generally sustainable: I think if you look at most societies round the world, now and historically, the norm is serial monogamy, ie, when a relationship exists there is an expectation of faithfulness. There are some variations, ie, lifelong monogamy (ie, "death do us part", inability to divorce) is probably unusual. Also there is always some boundary crossing (e.g. medieval kings had mistresses, prostitution has always existed) but that doesn't negate the general rule. The second most common arrangement historically is polygamy, which means that a few powerful men get to shag a lot. So I don't think the view that religion forces monogamy on people really stands up although I think making it a lifetime commitment might have been.

In the past, monogamy meant many things, but one of them was making sure that children were properly supported (in the west by the nuclear family) because there was no reliable birth control. I suspect that if monogamy wasn't natural for people, birth control would have meant polyamory was normal now. So perhaps the surprising thing is now normal monogamy remains.

Fair point. Actually some religions have traditionally allowed marriage to more than one partner. I personally think that there isn't a trend towards polygamy - it's always been there and embraced in some cultures. I personally think that it's down to the relationship that you have with your partner. Apart from the added complication that would come with having an extra partner, I don't have a reason to want an extra partner and my DW has never given any indication that she would like one. That being said, if people do want that kind of relationship and everyone is happy within that setup, why not?

It's important to distinguish polygamy and polyamory. The former = one man, multiple wives, and it tends to go hand in hand with hierarchical societies. The logic is that the Big Powerful Men get to mate with more females. Unless you're Jacob Zuma, who is currently in prison. It's not a picture of sexual equality.

But I agree that polygamy has always been around. You see it in medieval Europe too, not sanctioned by the Church, but nevertheless a commonplace part of society.

Polyamory, by contrast, has always been very rare and restricted to fringe groups. Free love isn't for the faint-hearted.

I personally think the world would be a much happier/healthier place if we had a lot more sex.

I also think its a somewhat strange concept that loving one person means you shouldn't be sexually attracted to others. I guess if you should act on this is a bigger question.

It seems strange too that we would try and fulfill every need in life with just one partner. Most people wouldn't have just one friend, or just one hobby/interest.

It's a shame that there seems to be a tendency for sexually liberated women to be judged (largely by other women).

So Someone who believes in monogamy is sexually repressed against their oh so liberated polycounterparts?

Lots and lots of people are intrinsically monogamous and its got fuck all to do with social expectations

Most people aren't monogamous their entire life though, are they? Marriages just don't seem to last.

My wife and I were married 10years before we decided on an open marriages, with rules.

We both have at least on FwB each and a couple who we 'mix and match' with.

We've met each others FwB and even all had dinner together, before Covid hit us all.

It works for us but I'd urge caution and a lot of talk before going into such a relationship.

If either of us ever wanted to go back to monogamy we'd both do it.

@Wherearemymarbles

So Someone who believes in monogamy is sexually repressed against their oh so liberated polycounterparts?

Lots and lots of people are intrinsically monogamous and its got fuck all to do with social expectations

Who said that? I have seen a single post which suggest those who favour monogamy are sexually repressed...

I actually can't find that post! But I do think that monogamy = sexual repression does tend to be an undercurrent in discussions like these. The idea (and I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested it) is that if we'd just shed the attitudes of the past we'd all be happily humping away like bonobos and it's only because these attitudes exist, as Marx would say, as a superstructure that prevents humans from being authentic. I don't think that idea works simply because all commonly-held ideas on how we should behave originate from normal human behaviour. And serial monogamy (as compared to lifetime monogamy) is entirely normal. I also think it's a mistake to think that finding other people than your spouse attractive means it's authentic to get off with them. We aren't slaves to our desires.

Yougov has lots of surveys on sex and relationships here yougov.co.uk/topics/relationships/explore/interest_area/Sex_and_Relationships?content=surveys.

Here's an interesting one: yougov.co.uk/topics/relationships/survey-results/daily/2020/05/06/3a09b/3: 68% of respondents (74% of women) believe having an emotional affair is as bad as sex with no emotional attachment.

This one is more relevant: yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2015/05/27/one-five-british-adults-admit-affair: 20% of people have had an affair, meaning a) affairs aren't as common as you'd think and b) most adults never have an affair. This suggests that monogamy is clearly sustainable, which is the question the OP originally asked.

20% of people have had an affair, meaning a) affairs aren't as common as you'd think and b) most adults never have an affair. This suggests that monogamy is clearly sustainable, which is the question the OP originally asked.

I’m not sure it’s quite as clear cut as that, because choices aren’t made in a vacuum: for most people, having an affair (or rather, being caught having an affair) carries significant penalty which they might not be willing to risk – from ‘soft’ penalties such as social stigma, judgement and humiliation; to the ‘hard’ penalties that separation brings such as losing full-time access to your children, having to leave or sell your house, financial loss in divorce etc. In countries where sex outside of marriage is illegal or hugely stigmatised, there are much lower rates of sex outside of marriage. You could therefore use that data to argue the sustainability of waiting until marriage to have sex / only having sex within marriage; except we know that once you remove criminalisation and social attitudes change, so does the population’s behaviour, and few of us in the UK would argue that sex only within marriage is the most sustainable relationship model.

I think I don’t think being monogamous is for the sexually repressed; although I do believe that more people (particularly women, because women are socialised from childhood with very particular and often damaging ideas around sex, sexuality and relationships) should be encouraged to think more broadly about their sexuality and what actually works for them as opposed to what they’ve always been taught should work for them. I know that for me personally, monogamy would not work, and I’d never do either myself or a partner the disservice of trying to fit my particular metaphorical square peg into a round hole. When we look at whether monogamy is sustainable, perhaps that’s the view we should be taking: that what isn’t sustainable is anybody having to choose a non-authentic path because they fear judgement or stigma; and that a sustainable social model of relationships and sexuality should essentially be everyone having the freedom to choose a path which works best for them, and less external judgement all around as to whether your particular choices make you “repressed” or a “slut.”

I agree that choices aren't made in a vacuum: they are made within the moral framework that society prescribes. So no argument from me on that. But the point I'm trying to bring out is that morals aren't made in a vacuum either. Hence my remarks about monogamy generally not being something imposed on society by the past, but something that society has decided to retain.

There's also no argument from me that women are socialised with some damaging ideas around sex and relationships. And I'm also not going to argue that it's as bad for men. However, I will say that monogamy also has restricted men's behaviour. For example, I wouldn't accept that men who sleep around were celebrated.

Just over a hundred years ago in the UK male homosexual acts resulted in imprisonment, lesbianism wasn't thought of, abortion was a capital offence, contraception wasn't easily available, distributing porn was an imprisonable offence, divorce was in reality impossible, rape in marriage was legal and lifetime monogamy was the norm. I could go on. All of those things bar one have gone completely.

Sorry, I got post too soon. My conclusion from that is that it's significant that monogamy has survived and it suggests to me that it's staying with us for all sorts of good reasons, the ones that spring to my mind are stability and predictability.

This implies no judgement on people who choose to live their lives non-monogamously.

... And I thought this was an interesting article on non-monogamy:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/15/moment-that-changed-me-monogamy-polyamory-jealousy

A quote: Escaping jealousy and embracing polyamory is one of the most rewarding things I have ever done. When I finally let go of monogamy, I realised I had so much more room for love and compassion. Not just for others, but for my husband, and for myself.

@Catullus5

... And I thought this was an interesting article on non-monogamy:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/15/moment-that-changed-me-monogamy-polyamory-jealousy

A quote: Escaping jealousy and embracing polyamory is one of the most rewarding things I have ever done. When I finally let go of monogamy, I realised I had so much more room for love and compassion. Not just for others, but for my husband, and for myself.

I have to agree 100%.

My wife and I both have others and since we gave up on monogamy our lives are enriched.

As you say, no jealousy whatsoever, we even talk about the sex we have with others and enjoy the experience.

bedtimeisthebest - How do you get over the thought of her with someone else? What if the sex is better, they have better chemistry? She’s more satisfied with him?

Sorry for the questions but really curious how you deal with this.

The thought of her having sex with someone else is thrilling and exciting.

We occasionally have threesomes, both FFM and MMF and it is a big turn on for me.

Sometimes the sex may be better with someone else for both of us, they may have a bigger penis or firmer breasts but that's not important at all.